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Transgender comedian Avery Edison held at Toronto airport, tweets her way through

avery.edison

At 5:23 p.m. yesterday, British comedian Avery Edison was detained at Pearson International Airport after flying to Toronto to visit her girlfriend. On its face, this was a routine detainment—she reports that she was prevented from coming into Canada because she had overstayed her student visa on a previous visit—but thanks to the magic combination of Twitter, Pearson’s free wifi and Edison’s wit, the situation resulted in an eight-hour tweet-a-thon detailing every twist and turn of the case.

[RELATED: For the developments following this story, please read our new post "Update on Avery Edison: UK comedian transferred to women's prison after massive internet uproar"]

Edison’s play-by-play reporting provides some interesting insights into a process few people experience. It’s in turn funny, sad, Kafkaesque and weird.

The most interesting element of the narrative involves Canadian border-control officers trying to handle the fact that Edison is transgender. According to her Twitter feed, Edison’s case was referred to a hearing, and she was kept at the airport until arrangements could be made—only security personnel were unsure where to hold her.

After hours of tweeting, waiting and getting an outpouring of support from Twitter users, Edison was transferred to Maplehurst Correctional Complex—a men’s only facility—in Milton at 1:42 a.m. There, she was told, she’d be examined by a medical officer in order to determine if she’d get a male or female cell.

The entire tale was posted in a series of tweets on Storify this morning, thanks to Torontonian Jason Sweeney. You can read the whole saga here.

UPDATE: It is now confirmed that Avery Edison has been taken to an all-male prison, despite self-identifying as female. Her partner, Twitter user Rahrah (@rahrahtempleton), is attempting to contact Edison and has learned the reason that authorities opted to take her to a men’s jail.

This story continues to develop, and you can follow the latest news—including Edison’s transfer to a women’s prison—here.

  • kales85

    she was sent to a men’s facility, you may wanna mention that part!

  • karinagw

    What kale85 said. Did you actually read the whole thing and the follow-ups posted by her girlfriend? You’re either an inept or insensitive “journalist”.

  • sigh

    Transgender! Not transgendered

  • disqus_EdjaFZLbJ5

    thank you for updating with further information, hoping this story turns out in her favor

  • http://leftytgirl.wordpress.com/ Savannah

    I would emphasize that her ID accurately states her gender as female. It’s beyond any question of self-identification, the state identifies her (or at least should identify her) as female.

  • coocoo4cocopuffs

    Someone needs to have a serious talk with Canadian Customs agency….let them know its 2014 AND that we aren’t Russia

  • Margaret Robinson

    This is ridiculous. I’m ashamed that the Canadian immigration officials are so inept, uneducated, and offensive.

  • Crazee Jae

    Canadian law is still having issues with self-identifying trans and government issued documents that have genders countrary to the birth gender, especially with post-op. Due to the nature of the penal system, if this was to be an ongoing detainment, she’d eventually be moved to a womens detention facility, but she would need a lawyer for that.

    That stated – it’s also about physical features versus how 1 identifies. Our airport security has trouble with who they view as one gender having a passport stating the opposite. It’s about security (fake passports, terrorism, illegal immigration, etc), but it takes a toll on our trans community because of too much scrutiny, and the difficulty of attempting to fly when your birth certificate invalidates your passport.

    Keep in mind though – she was not detained because she is transgender. She was detained due to prior Visa issues, and that is a major concern, with many of our immigrants (at least on the west coast) coming in to ‘feeder’ schools, then just finding a way to stay, no matter how. It’s a serious issue in Canada, and our border guards take it seriously.

    I am sorry, that she had the issues with the detention centre and he/she. That’s very unfortunate.

  • a_little_hubris

    CBSA seems to go out of its way to be as ignorant and horrible to visitors to Canada as possible. Wonder if it’s part of their training programme?

  • Hfxhooligan

    If it has male parts , it’s male!

  • Nick Meinzer

    Unfortunately we get the same thing here in the States…NYC won’t change my birth certificate… Man I hope she can get released soon!

  • Kylie Michelle Fraser

    many states won’t change the BC unless you have surgery. good thing I have 20K laying around…. :/

  • YankeeintheBluegrass

    The issue is compounded by a bureaucracy that, like any bureaucracy, doesn’t deal with issues that fall outside the yes/no realm particularly well.

    The bigger lesson is: Don’t want to have problems, don’t overstay your visa.

  • Nick Meinzer

    yeah….that $40k I need for bottom surgery I’ll just summon up, to prove my level of commitment, because ten years of hormones, $8500 chest surgery, Superior court document, CA state ID, and social security card don’t yet prove commitment! I could be a terrorist! Because Al Queida is so down with making their operatives transition!

  • jiasdofasdj

    That’s the lesson to her. There is a lesson here for the bureaucracy that screwed this up as well.

  • Walter Sobchek

    The Ontario Human Rights Commission: “Despite self-identification as transsexual, for example, many institutions require medical certification of what an individual has already stated to be true. The law, in its enforcement and administration, allows for only a minimal capacity to self-declare as transgendered.” – See more at: http://www.ohrc.on.ca/en/discussion-paper-toward-commission-policy-gender-identity/current-issues#sthash.JHknAxtO.dpuf

  • jiasdofasdj

    This is not just a matter of how she identifies. She is obviously well along the process of converting to female hormones, and other than her junk, she is much closer to female than male. Airport security doesn’t get to make a call about what gender someone is – it’s on her passport, it’s done.

  • jiasdofasdj

    I agree. There is no practical benefit to requiring bottom surgery. Anyone who thinks there is one would be ruined in a debate in under 60 seconds.

  • Crazee Jae

    It is though, because they can’t rely on a passport alone. It is unfortunate, but those are the facts. If passport information doesn’t match other correlating sources, it’s a red flag, and must be taken into consideration. Its a system that hasn’t advanced yet to deal with transgender travellers.

  • jiasdofasdj

    It’s only relevant if they think she isn’t the person the passport was issued to, and that wasn’t an issue in this case.

  • Crazee Jae

    It is relevant for the detaining. They went by the more ‘relevant’ information (her body still has male genitalia) versus her passport. It sucks, it isn’t fair, I know. I’m just explaining the system as it stands. Read more carefully, please, and you’d see that.

  • jiasdofasdj

    They *thought* they were supposed to go by what they *thought* was the more relevant information. The law is not ambiguous on this though and if she had been held long enough to have gotten a lawyer to deal with this, it would have been reversed.

  • Crazee Jae

    As I already said in my first post. Read, would you?

  • jiasdofasdj

    No. You said the law is ambiguous. It’s actually not ambiguous at all.

  • john700

    hahahaha. don’t worry, in a few decades Islam will solve all these issues and there wouldn’t be any more incidents like these in the Western World.

  • Crazee Jae

    No, I didn’t. “Due to the nature of the penal system, if this was to be an ongoing detainment, she’d eventually be moved to a womens detention facility, but she would need a lawyer for that.”

  • jiasdofasdj

    And the need for them to move her would be because they screwed up the first time.

  • GemmaSeymour

    Goddess spare us all from genital essentialism. Anyone making apologies for the government here can FRO.

  • jiasdofasdj

    Something, by the way, that they could have successfully been sued for.

  • GemmaSeymour

    Praying for Avery’s safety and for Justice for #girlslikeus

  • Mehdi Patel

    border imperialism by harsha walia…its a business

  • Crazee Jae

    It’s not just in Canada, sadly. Many immigration offices have such issues. But it wouldn’t have been noticed had she not overstayed her student Visa.

  • Femmegrrrl

    Oh god. Terrifying.

  • http://www.eyestir.com/ Bill Owen

    Where can I read those?

  • cyberspice

    The British Government recognises her as female. She’s not *self declared*. She has a British Passport that says *FEMALE*. This is a breach of sovereign rights!

  • tensacross

    i dont understand how they found out she’s transgender if her passport says female. why would they even think to question that?

  • Margaret Robinson

    Regardless of the visa issue, holding a transwoman in a men’s prison is a violation of Ontario law – specifically, Toby’s Law.

  • Margaret Robinson

    I hope this is an opportunity to change the way these cases are handled in Canada.

  • Elliot

    File a complaint with Canadian Border Services Agency here- http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/contact/feedback-retroaction-eng.html

  • ThatSonyGuy

    So here in Canada we can root for a trans to be Miss Universe but treat this person as a criminal. what the fuck Canada? WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK INDEED.

  • Crazee Jae

    I hope it’s an opportunity to change the way they are handled everywhere.

  • Crazee Jae

    If her Canadian Government Issued student visa stated she was a male during her stay here, that carries more weight then a foreign issued documents with no other evidence, along with a medical examination, sadly.

  • blearghhh

    I believe that since CBSA is under Federal jurisdiction they’re not subject to Ontario law.

    Of course, once they transferred her to Maplehurst, which is a Provincial facility, it would be covered under Provincial legislation… So yeah.

  • Armo

    Oh, so other than the one thing that makes him a male, he’s not a male?
    I guess I can decide to call myself a female tomorrow and use their bathrooms then. This overload of political correctness is going way too far.

  • karinagw

    Here are the links to Avery’s ( https://twitter.com/aedison ) and her girlfriend’s ( https://twitter.com/rahrahtempleton ) twitter feeds. Of course, reading them on twitter will have you reading them backwards through time. Jason Sweeney has created a storify page for the situation which will have the tweets going in forward chronological order: http://storify.com/sween/avery-edison-detained-at-toronto-pearson-airport

  • jiasdofasdj

    How long have you been on hormones?

  • Crazee Jae

    For those that don’t know, some extra facts on being declared Trans in Canada for Canadian Citizens – you must have been in therapy for a period of 6 monthes, over which you cannot have missed a single appointment. You have to have been on hormones for nearly 2 years. After such time, you can now petition the government to change your various government issued ids, but it must be done for each individual id. Imagine how many you have. Now imagine going to each office, with 3 years worth of papers that state that medical practitioners state you identify as a different gender. Every. Bloody. Time. Also, you may need to do this again if they don’t agree. Now, imagine that every time you want to travel, you need 1) your passport. 2) other government issued id that correlates with the change on your passport. 3) that folder of files that states you jumped through alĺ the hoops to be identified as you are today.

    That is the current system, and judgements during customs and border crossings must be made swiftly with little information.
    Look to the travelling processes in your countries, and tell me that, had this occurred there, your own people wouldn’t have responded the same. This is a major flaw in all border crossings. And it needs to be fixed.

  • Evan

    Her detention at the airport and subsequently in prison have nothing to do with the fact that she’s trans. Read the tweets.

  • Ellett Doxtator

    I hope people know that Pearson employs agents from third party organizations. They’re not actual federally trained CBSA agents.

  • mookie

    Right Honourable William Hague FSRL MP, Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs
    House of Commons, London, SW1A 0AA
    Tel: 020 7219 4611
    william.hague.mp@parliament.uk
    Foreign and Commonwealth Office, King Charles Street, London, SW1A 2AH
    Tel: 020 7008 1500
    private.officegsi@fco.gsi.gov.uk

  • Mehdi Patel

    Its time for Androgeny!!!! Its Just PAT!!!!

  • Alecta

    Immigration FAIL! She should not be in jail, first of all, and not in a men’s jail because she’s a woman. Whatever her plumbing, she identifies and presents female and is therefore female. Bad bad bad. I hope she triumphs and has a kick-ass visit!

  • David Fletcher

    Why was she here longer than her Visa allowed?

  • Toronto

    Toronto is taking all kinds of Ls this year…smh

  • Jonathan Evilboy Wolk

    WOW, how utterly terrifying for her.

    I hope she is okay…

  • Jonathan Evilboy Wolk

    I believe that when she was in Canada as a student she was still living as a male and that started it off.

  • PrincessOfTheCrystal

    Just remember guys, transphobia is “relevant to her detaining”. For fuck’s sake.

  • PrincessOfTheCrystal

    Why is she been placed in a men’s facility in the first place?

  • Todd

    She overstayed her visa. If I flew to Britain with an overstayed visa I would be denied too. Does she think she is special? Also if she has male junk then she should be in a male jail, just like any other prisoner with mail junk dressed as a woman would be.

  • PrincessOfTheCrystal

    We need to abolish the concept of ‘political correctness’ as a shield for malicious, amoral social conservatives(this is you, and no it’s not up for debate) to hide behind; the fact is that she is being put in a very dangerous position being put in a male facility even if they claim she will be well guarded. Treating someone different to you with respect is not “political correctness”. Political correctness should not be the idea of catering to anyone who isn’t a straight white cismale and it’s fucking revolting that some people seem to think we need a negative term to describe that.

  • Ally

    “Doing what they are told”…that is their job, as brainless as the hierarchy is. She should be respected as female…it is official, and THEY are disrespectful!

  • http://timbrannan.blogspot.com/ Timothy Brannan

    No. She would like to be treated like everyone else. So send her to the correct prison/detention facility.

  • Todd

    no, if you have male junk you go to male prison. Watch a few documentaries about it before you speak about what you do not know.

  • Ally

    Oh, I do know..like I said, they are doing what they are told. Until they change their prison policy, this bullshit will continue.

  • Ewan

    And? Her UK issued passport isn’t the problem here.

  • Todd

    They did send her to the right prison….why is it so hard to understand. Male junk male prison.

    Ok, explaination.
    1. She is not special.
    2. Transgender prisoners in prison DO NOT get transferred to a female prison once they declare they are now a woman.
    3. He is not special.

    So why should he/she get special treatment. She broke the immigration law by overstaying the visa. Detained and put into a jail that anyone who has male junk would be put.

  • Crazee Jae

    Let me see if I understand this. It’s Transphobia to have detained her due to her overstaying her student visa, having conflicting information between the student visa, her passport, and the medical practitioners, and then following through with the law, though the law is incorrect, because your job also relies on that?

    Huh. I’ve had the definition wrong this whole time. Thank you for clearing that up.

  • Crazee Jae

    It’s not ‘prison policy’. It’s the border agency policies, which has many rules and regulations in place that need to be updated and changed and haven’t yet.

  • Crazee Jae

    1) Everyone is Special.
    2) Actually, under most laws, yea, they do, if shown that their gender difference could lead to dangerous situations.
    3) See #1.

  • Todd

    If everyone is special then special is normal hence that makes no one special…..shaking head.

    2. No they don´t go to female prison lol, the go to solitary confinement or protective custody in a male prison.

    Do you need some links or did you get schooled enough.

    Help you out. You tube lockup and lockup raw. Yes it is American but Canada bases it same gender system as them. Men have penises, women have viginas.

  • http://timbrannan.blogspot.com/ Timothy Brannan

    Ah. I see what the issue is then.

  • Todd

    I know it is new age world but where I am from boys have penises and women have vaginas. Because she is feminine or looks like a woman does not make her a woman.

    I am guessing there are 100s or 1000s of transgender prisoners. Might be a lucky guess but all the ones with penises I would bet are in……Male prisons. Just a guess.

  • Todd

    If everyone is special that makes special normal hence she is normal not special….shaking head.

    boys have penises women have vaginas….got it?

  • Walter Sobchek

    Serious questions. In order to get recognition you have to “present” yourself as one too? Self-identifying as a woman is not enough?

  • Kelly Pettit

    A visa doesn’t count as id to begin with and it is expired. It has no weight.

  • Walter Sobchek
  • Bartlet4Gallifrey

    She was living as a woman and had a passport identifying her as woman when she moved to and lived in Canada.

  • Lemmee

    Do you know what makes you a woman? Identifying as one.

    Do you know what makes you an asshole? Telling people what they can and cannot identify themselves as because of your biggoted views.

  • Bartlet4Gallifrey

    When she moved to Canada she was already living as a woman and had a passport identifying her as a woman. She was legally female before she moved there.

  • Ian Osmond

    It must be nice to understand gender so much better than the entire field of psychology, people who experience it, and the British government.

  • Ian Osmond

    It’s been observed that “complaining about political correctness” is almost always exactly the same thing as “complaining that someone pointed out that you’re acting like a jerk.”

    “Political correctness” is almost always the same thing as “not being an asshole.”

  • Ian Osmond

    I’m sure that, when you were a small toddler, someone explained that “boys have peepees that go out and girls have peepees that don’t.”

    And you’ve probably stuck with that definition since then.

    The thing which you have to understand is that, when we explain things to toddlers, we tend to over-simplify things. We expect that, when they get older, they’ll learn the more complicated versions of reality.

    Unfortunately, apparently nobody ever got around to telling you the REST of the bits about gender, so you’re still stuck with what someone told you when you were two years old. How you understand stuff is fine for when you’re two, but a grownup should really understand the more complicated definitions.

  • Graham Freeman

    Soooo …. how did they find out she had male genitalia? Passport says Female, but you have to check down there “just in case”?

  • LeeWeaver

    Actually Females have two of the same kind of sex chromosome (XX), and are called the homogametic sex. Males have two distinct sex chromosomes (XY).

    So a simple blood test will confirm it’s sex.
    Genetics is a great tool.

  • Todd

    lol, so I get to choose my gender regardless of my genetic makeup. YAY Tomorrow I am a woman!!!!!!!
    Maybe when it is ladies night for drinks I will be a woman then too!!!! Oh wait who wants to open the door for me I am a woman!!!!!!
    Hmmm….filing out papers, maybe if I am fat and I get man boobs and put a wig on I even can look like a woman!!!!! Oh and if I ever want to go into the Olympics, woman baby!!!!!!! Much easier to win!

    On a more serious note, it is in fact you who is confused. Please watch some documentaries on transgender and prison. It is not just to protect the transgender prisoner but others around them.

    If I ever end up in prison can I then become transgender and go to a woman´s prison? You fail to acknowledge or even understand the ramifications or implications on the prison system with you rainbow world.

  • Mandi Apple Collingridge

    You’re a tool. Not a great one, however.

  • Todd

    oh and maybe you can comprehend this…are you saying a man with female genetic makeup but lives as a man should go to a male prison? Again research is a wonderful thing.

    Ugh, so narrow-minded.

  • Ian Osmond

    Why shouldn’t he?

    Are you assuming that he’d be raped? Isn’t that a more GENERAL problem with the prison system, if rape is endemic? It’s not in most of the developed world; the prevalence of systemic rape in a prison system appears in third-world countries, in repressive regimes, and in the United States, but not most other places.

  • Jay Blackshire

    It wouldn’t be, if her British documentation acknowledges that she is a woman, all Canadian would as well.

  • manofredearth

    That’s sex, not gender.

  • Todd

    67% of transgender inmates are sexually assaulted or raped. You are Canadian? You think the Canadian Prison system is special? You think rape, sexual harrassment doesn´t exsist in V
    Canadian prisons? More niavety on your part.

    I think the main point is being missed. The person overstayed His visa as on his visa he was listed as a male, then expected just to walk through our gates and be welcomed with open arms. The person broke the law, should of checked with a Canadian Embassy and now trying to get people to feel sorry for him because she is confused herself.

    He also tweets that he is going to JAIL because of his male parts….no he is going to jail because he did not follow the rules set forth by our government when it comes to visas and that is why he is going to jail. Let´s face it he would not be in this mess if he followed the rules….I have travelled to about 20 countries, I follow their rules but I guess she thought different.

  • Angie

    Exactly !!

  • Todd

    lol, reality sucks.

  • Todd

    right because in the real world criminals would take advantage of your rosie rainbow views. LOL, glad you are not making decisions in our government. Educate yourself, its worth it.

    Paul Bernardo tells everyone he is now a woman…game on!

    tools.

  • Todd

    Paul Bernardo tells everyone he is now a woman because he feels and associates himself as one…game on!
    tools…….nuff said.

  • GAWKEDCANUK

    Well technically, due to her previous visa overstay, she is a criminal. While I sympathize with the treatment 100%, she would have been best served by consulting a good immigration lawyer prior to her visit, knowing full well she over-stayed her student visa previously.

  • JohJohVL

    Genitals != Gender.

    If you spent even the most minor, most insignificant amount of time researching what trans* people actually are, you might learn something.

    But people like you are willfully ignorant douchebags who don’t understand how to computer, let alone read.

    Gender is not 1 and 0, it is more complex than that, and your infantile level knowledge of human biology that you picked up in the 3rd grade doesn’t effectively cover, ya know what let’s be honest here it doesn’t at all cover, the *ACTUAL* scientific understanding of trans* people as it is today.

    Afraid that women are sometimes born with an outtie? Get over yourself.

  • Todd

    actually thats not true at all….Visas are always used to show a personss habits, expired or not. I have worked and lived in about 6 different countries and always asked my past visa history.

  • Todd

    Actually it is not Airport Security. It is called Canadian Immigration Officers which have more power then the average police officer.

  • Todd

    because he has a penis.

  • Todd

    I dont care about feelings….this is prison not the gay pride parade in Berlin. I have compassion for transgenders but when it comes to prison it is what it is.

    Your ignorance shows by not even looking at the big picture.
    How many male inmates would/will be in female prisons by YOUR definition. Its government, they don´t have feelings or care if you are gay.

  • R.J.

    Why did she get arrested at all? What the hell!

  • Todd

    Also this is not about 1 and 0. Who or what transgender is, get over yourself. This is about assessing an inmate and what prison they go to. Is it really that difficult???

  • Todd

    So once again,
    Paul Bernardo tells everyone he is now a woman….he takes hormones grows his hair long and looks like a woman but has a penis.

    It is like you think Prison is a happy fun place.

  • djehuti

    She’s legally female. Her passport declares her gender as being female. In the eyes of the UK government, she’s female. I see where you’re coming from – if men could just self-identify as female upon being booked, we might have some overcrowding problems in Women’s prisons. However, in this situation, there’s a world of difference between self-identifying as female and being identified as female under law. If the law is to be respected as corrections and border officers are mandated to do, she must be treated as female.

  • Todd

    umm again. Overstayed his visa. That is a serious offence some countries, jail time, banned for up to 10 years and removed.

  • JohJohVL

    Compassion for “transgenders” eh? Transgender is an adjective, not a noun, and not an identity.

    Comparing trans* women to gay men, eh? Sexual orientation and gender identity are two different things, and there are plenty of straight trans* women (which means they’re attracted to men – just in case your little brain didn’t connect the dots).

    The girl is *LEGALLY RECOGNIZED AS FEMALE* you dimwhit. This isn’t about some guy claiming to be trans* to get into a women’s only facility, there is more to it than that.

    She should be going to a female facility, for females. Anything less is outright transmisogyny.

  • waltereg0

    Gender is meaningless. Its definition has become so vague that it is all nonsense now. Sex is what matters and that is either male or female.

  • JohJohVL

    WRONG.

    The authorities are being douchebags by delegitimizing her female identity as anything but authentic by housing her in a male prison.

  • JohJohVL

    It’s about not delegitimizing a trans* woman as anything other than being female, bigot.

  • Thinker

    No, SHE Tweeted “In case anybody is mistaken – I was NOT denied entry because I’m trans. I am not a credible visitor for reasons besides gender.”

  • Todd

    nice, name call. Classy move. I guess you prove why he is in a male prison. Ignorance is no excuse.

    Male junk Male prison. Or should we let all the men dressed as women go to female prisons and rape the prisons.

    It is like you think prison is a rainbow world. Again you are a woman, who slanders on the internet. I don´t expect you to understand and actually will look into reporting you and legal action for what you wrote.

  • Billy Baaaab

    Genuine question, what’s the difference?

  • JohJohVL

    You calling her a “he” shows your ignorance and bigotry right off the bat. Nice to misgender her, you’re really pulling a lot of opinion in your favor by being a total asshole.

    At this point, treating you as anything above that of a complete idiot is completely and totally justified at your completely abhorrent view and opinions of trans* women.

  • waltereg0

    How a person identifies is meaningless, who they are in physical reality is what matters.

  • Todd

    right and you do realize you are slandering me on the internet?

  • JohJohVL

    Bigots like you deserve to be called out for your transmisogynistic bullshit.

  • Todd

    So Johanna Adianna Wolf I will be reporting you.

  • JohJohVL

    Reporting me doesn’t change the fact that you’re a transmisogynistic asshole who refuses to actually read about what trans* is before spouting off your ignorant mouth about it.

  • Cactus

    Agreed, and in order it for it to be slander it would have to be:
    a. Spoken, not written
    b. Untrue

  • JohJohVL

    Straighted. Gayed. Lesbianed. Whited. Male’ed. Think about how little this makes sense when we’re talking about things people are born into.

    Adding an ‘ed’ at the end is for verbs, not adjectives.

  • http://www.greatestescapist.com/ Kate @ GreatestEscapist.com

    Your guess is wrong – & even if that were true, it doesn’t make it right. Go learn stuff, please, & then come back to the table & play nice like a normal person with compassion & common sense.

  • http://www.greatestescapist.com/ Kate @ GreatestEscapist.com

    You wouldn’t call a person “blacked” or “gayed” or “Jewished,” would you? “Trangendered” is not a word; “transgender” is.

  • Laurnil

    I don’t necessarily think that jiasdofasdj is not reading your posts, but pointing out flaws in the reasoning. I’m a lawyer in the US and I get the impression you have some legal training, too. This is simply based on how you’re phrasing certain issues. But, I think jiasdofasdj has a good point when he/she (coincidentally, I don’t know jiasdofasdj’s gender) states that if it isn’t a concern about whether the passport is fake (from the article, it appears they believe she is really who she says she is on the passport), shouldn’t that be utilized in determining where she should be housed? From the photo posted above, she is most definitely a female. I’m assuming they only know she has “junk” because of those horrible body scanners that basically see you naked. When you state that airport security relies on determining where she should stay based on physical features, that inherently adds some ambiguity to the situation. I state above that I most definitely think she is a female from the photo, but others might be unsure. In the situation, and I think this is jiasdofasdj’s point, where a person may be pre-op, has ambiguous features, and has a most certainly valid passport from a government that clearly states she is a female, shouldn’t they fall back on that governmental determination? I’d be curious to see if she had any other government documentation on her person that listed her as female. If I were the airport security, I would most certainly want to see any other identifying documentation, especially in this situation, if I were to be making such a determination as to where to house this person. You might be correct that they are behind the times, but in this instance, there is a level of common sense that seems to be lacking on the part of these authorities.

  • http://www.greatestescapist.com/ Kate @ GreatestEscapist.com

    SHE overstayed HER visa. Yes, that’s a crime. Yes, she should have been detained. Yes, she possibly deserves to be banned/fined/jailed under the law. But being misgendered, humiliated, & dehumanized? Hey, none of us deserves that.

  • JohJohVL

    “and legal action”

    lol oh wow, this is for real, isn’t it?

    Welcome to the internet douchenozzle. Your ignorant uninformed opinions are going to smashed to bits by people who actually have a clue what they’re talking about because they’ve done this impressive thing called READING and LEARNING, which you’re obviously incapable of.

  • LeeWeaver

    According to Merriam-Webster Gender = Sex

  • Todd

    Actually it is the other way around…you see a nice picture and a person in a tough spot and think ooohhhh, they need to play nice.

    Any person with a penis has the ability to penetrate another female inmate, also giving a much higher ability of spreading STDs and pregnancy which I guess in this day and age women are making babies with women….what makes this person any more special? They should be housed in solitary prison cell or protective custody in a male prison.

    Why is that so hard to understand?

  • Petra Vanessa Cummings

    trade for being held in Colnbrook because of being trans* in UK. Hauled me aside simply coz of who I was, denied entry, held in that “immigration detention centre” (READ: JAIL) and then sent home here.Trade anyday.

  • Todd

    Education for you…

    Do transgender prisoners have a right to be housed in a facility consistent with their gender identity?

    Transsexual people who have not had genital surgery are generally classified according to their birth sex for purposes of prison housing, regardless of how long they may have lived as a member of the other gender, and regardless of how much other medical treatment they may have undergone[1] — a situation which puts male-to-female transsexual women at great risk of sexual violence. Transsexual people who have had genital surgery are generally classified and housed according to their reassigned sex.

    One mechanism that is sometimes used to protect transsexual women who are at risk of violence due to being housed in male prisons is to separate them from other prisoners. This is referred to as “administrative segregation.” On the positive side, placing a transgender or transsexual woman in administrative segregation may provide her with greater protection than being housed in the general population. On the negative side, however, administrative segregation also results in exclusion from recreation, educational and occupational opportunities, and associational rights

    Straight from the National Center for Lesbian Rights

  • Todd

    Do transgender prisoners have a right to be housed in a facility consistent with their gender identity?

    Transsexual people who have not had genital surgery are generally classified according to their birth sex for purposes of prison housing, regardless of how long they may have lived as a member of the other gender, and regardless of how much other medical treatment they may have undergone[1] — a situation which puts male-to-female transsexual women at great risk of sexual violence. Transsexual people who have had genital surgery are generally classified and housed according to their reassigned sex.

    One mechanism that is sometimes used to protect transsexual women who are at risk of violence due to being housed in male prisons is to separate them from other prisoners. This is referred to as “administrative segregation.” On the positive side, placing a transgender or transsexual woman in administrative segregation may provide her with greater protection than being housed in the general population. On the negative side, however, administrative segregation also results in exclusion from recreation, educational and occupational opportunities, and associational rights

    Straight from the National Center for Lesbian Rights.

  • Laurnil

    If THAT is the one thing that makes a male a male, then I know some men who are seriously lacking male-ness.

  • waltereg0

    There is a very practical and ethical reason why Trans need to be placed in the prison appropriate for their sex, not gender. A criminal who is MTF Trans could rape women in a female prison. Especially a violent criminal. You can’t put a Trans alone in a cell with a normal woman prisoner. Sexual assault would eventually happen in some cases and then the prison would be responsible. Most Trans are not gay, they are heterosexual and have hetero sex drives. Edison is an example of this, as he/she has a girlfriend. Putting a MTF Trans in a male prison, as in the case of Avery Edison, is no more at risk for rape than a normal man would be. Edison will be issued a male uniform, and no doubt skip the makeup and present as a male. If it’s a short term case where issuing clothing isn’t going to happen, then solitary is probably the best option.

    Why are people freaking out saying, “what could happen to Avery, what if she’s assaulted?” That could happen to any man put in a prison. If the prison is properly run, then assaults will be prevented. The facility doesn’t seem to be one that handles violent criminals so it isn’t really a major concern, anymore than it would be for any normal man. In a female prison, a MTF Trans like Edison would have the women inmates at a disadvantage, they would be at risk of being physically assaulted by a physically stronger person, and sexually assaulted by a heterosexual male transwoman.

  • JohJohVL

    Treating a trans* woman as anything less than a woman, no matter what her genital configuration is, is humiliating, dehumanizing, and not to mention *COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY* delegitimizes the authenticity of her actual gender identification, as present in her brain, as confirmed by pyschs who placed their stamp of approval down on forms for state recognition of her *FEMALE* gender status, of which the state recognizes.

    She should have full legal right to be placed in a female facility, *NOT A MALE FACILITY*. It is *NOT* an issue of sex here, but one of ignorance and bigotry.

    Attempting to reinforce this pathetic idea that gender is entirely based upon genitals is incredibly problematic, not representative of actual modern science, and is being used as a means to *HARASS HER*, which the jail staff has done by misgendering her at every single turn.

    Trans* women’s bodies are *NOT* public commodities open to policing, you transmisogynistic asshole.

  • Todd

    Wow, common sense.

  • Guest

    50$ bets you don’t even know 1 actual trans* person in real life, and are just talking about things that never actually happen.

  • Kelly Pettit

    Yes but visas do not count as identification so would have no bearing on the determination of her gender. I.e. if her visa said she was male it could not trump the passport saying she is female. A visa is invalid in the absence of identity documentation.

  • Todd

    Johnny why is it so hard to understand prison is not about how you feel. It is a cold sad place where reality is with your clothes off.

  • FACLC

    What’s “accurate” about that? The state identifies a person with a penis, two testicles, and (most tellingly) a Y-chromosome as “female” and our first instinct is that our government should adopt the same fairy tale?

  • JohJohVL

    “Most Trans are not gay, they are heterosexual and have hetero sex drives. Edison is an example of this, as he/she has a girlfriend.” – Um, a girl liking another girl is called being gay, not straight. Good job on misgendering her.

    “Edison will be issued a male uniform, and no doubt skip the makeup and present as a male.” – Umm, no, she won’t present as male. At all. She’s a woman, her brain is wired as a woman’s is.

    “sexually assaulted by a heterosexual male transwoman” – Let’s vilify trans* women a little bit more as nothing more than rapists, oh and, let’s also delegitimize her as an actual female to boot.

    You really have no idea what you’re actually talking about, do you?

  • FACLC

    Really? You don’t instinctively know the answer to this one??

  • FACLC

    Do you know I’m God? Do you know how I know. I just identified as one. What else do you want?

  • FACLC

    We’ve learned stuff. And we’ve learned we’re still right.

  • FACLC

    Prisons are segregated due to sex, not gender.

  • waltereg0

    Treating them as women places normal female prisoners at risk for rape. Not all transwoman are gay, many are herterosexual and are attracted to females. If they are violent offenders then they would be a risk for raping the female prisoners.

  • Todd

    THEN DONT BREAK THE LAW PERIOD.

    PRISON DOES NOT CARE ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS.

  • JohJohVL

    What is hard to understand is why you continue to treat trans* women as rapists.

  • Todd

    well johnny lives in the world where everyone plays nicely. Well except him.

  • LeeWeaver

    The words are interchangeable.

    The words scientific use of the words are the same.

    This is a matter is science not feelings, or choice.

  • Todd

    Do you think about protecting the female prisoners from rape or only your feelings being hurt? Grow up.

  • waltereg0

    Avery Edison seems like a very nice person who made a mistake overstaying a visa.
    But suppose the crime she was accused of was something like domestic violence? What if she had beaten and raped her Canadian girlfriend? Her sex is male and she is heterosexual, so she is certainly physically capable of that. Would you then say she should be put in a cell alone with a female prisoner because that’s her “preference”?

  • barloot

    If they put a person with a penis in a women’s population it would make headlines around the world and the decades of lawsuits that would cripple the justice system would have to be paid for by everyone. On a side note, why is every story about trans people about the same thing, namely pronoun misunderstandings? I mean it seems the surest way to a beef is to address a trans person in anyway. I mean it’s a 50/50 shot right? But wrong because no matter what choice is made, the response is ‘how dare you presume to judge me!’

  • Todd

    Women rape, men rape. Fact of life. Why are you so hung up on your agenda?

  • manofredearth

    Women can penetrate women, too. And men can penetrate men. And women can penetrate men. Penises are not the only thing that penetrates, and having a penis does not designate “rapist” status.

  • Chris Warrender

    I’m not an expert on anything to do with changing gender but for fuck’s sake – she is a human being who has just stayed too long somewhere – prison? Are we not learning anything here? Let this person go! I’m sick of government agncies having anything to do with identifying and oppressing people because of things like gender, sex, religion etc. – I am so angry, I very rarely comment on these things but I literally feel like driving to Toronto and breaking her out.

  • manofredearth

    And the sex on her ID is F. I only commented on the false labeling, not what should be done.

  • manofredearth

    Wrong.

  • JohJohVL

    Because a cis female can’t rape? Because a trans* female *OBVIOUSLY* has the same amount of sex drive as a cis male and enjoys using their little birth defect? Are you even engaging your brain when you think this bullshit up?

    Or is it because you enjoy seeing a trans* female having to be in solitary confinement (which is essentially a form of torture), with a bunch of horny guys who would beat her and rape her for the fucking enjoyment of beating up the “wannabe woman?”

    Lemme guess – it’s the second one, isn’t it, asshole?

    Bottom line: Trans* women are *AT A WAY HIGHER RISK OF VIOLENCE AGAINST THEM* than any cis woman ever is, hands down, as actual evidence and actual occurrences of hate crimes continues to show. Grouping a trans* woman with males is nothing more than delegitimization of gender identity as authentic, i.e. TRANSMISOGYNY.

  • cri$$y red

    i’m a post op MtF and have never experienced any type of discrimination at airports, borders, nothing, i’m also 6’3 so can’t blame this all on being transgender.

  • Todd

    Huh? What are you talking about? I am talking about anyone with a penis has the ability to penetrate a woman in a manner to cause pregnancy by ejaculation or STD by ejactulation….Didn´t say anything about trans women.

    That is your own demon. I realize you are a transgender who has huge narcissistic tendencies just by reading your posts.

  • Todd

    tell that to Johanna. Its about breaking the law.

  • LeeWeaver

    Citation needed.

  • AmyJhnsn

    No, he really has no idea what he’s talking about, but apparently that isn’t going to stop him. :-(

  • JohJohVL

    “a transgender” – learn to English asshole. Transgender is an adjective, not a noun.

    You think trans* women actually enjoy that part of their body? Holy hell you’re dumb.

    And ejaculating? *LOL* You have no idea what actual trans* women are outside of porn, do you?

  • Todd

    Exactly it is to protect the other inmates. Why is that so hard to understand.

    We are a socialist country and protecting the people as a group not as an individual is what is important.

  • cherbearblue

    Actually, one can have XY chromosomes, but have androgen insensitivity, and therefore develop and present as biologically female. Without a karyotype, you’d never know you had XY chromosomes. Genetics is a great tool, eh?

    As is not judging someone for their perceived gender vs. their chromosomes. There is a difference between gender and sex. Don’t judge until you’ve walked in a transgender person’s shoes. Check your privilege.

  • Todd

    What are you babbling about in my post it says anyone with a penis.

    Seriously. Do you read or does your brain switch everything to transgender world?

  • Todd

    Right I would love to know how a woman can penetrate a woman(of course with hand tongue and toes) but leading to the spread of STDs and Pregnancy…..interested to know.

  • cherbearblue

    No they’re not. Please get in the know before you post any more.

  • Todd

    bah, it is not about the person it is about protecting others….it is not about your status it is about protect female inmates and males who think they are women.

  • AmyJhnsn

    This doesn’t even make sense. Trans* women who are heterosexual are, by definition, attracted to MEN.

  • waltereg0

    You don’t understand the distinction of gender vs sex. Allow me to educate you. Edison’s sex is male. Edison is attracted to females. That makes Edison heterosexual, not lesbian. Pronouns and gender terms like “woman” refer to gender, which is a vague concept that is determined by however the person prefers.
    So since Edison is a male who prefers to be referred to as ‘she’, then it is grammatically correct to say: she is a heterosexual who is attracted to women.
    Edison’s brain is not “wired as a woman” our brains are ‘wired’ in the womb by the chemistry of being either XY or XX, and continue to to be wired throughout childhood.
    Edison is not going to rape anyone, but for the policy to be consistent, prisoners accused of rape, but presumed innocent, we have to consider the possibility that a heterosexual MTF transwoman could rape regular women prisoners.

  • waltereg0

    You owe me $50

  • barloot

    ‘transmisogynistic asshole’?! hahahahahahahahaha that’s funny as hell! C’mon man!! hahahahahaha. You got joke’s son. hahahahahahaha. Thank’s for that!

  • Todd

    ok so the transgenders should relax. It is not about that. Same as flying to UK you would get denied whether you are transgender or not.

  • Todd

    So your ID determines your gender?

  • Marianne Detmers

    She’s pre-operative…

  • Todd

    no but you do say blacks, gays and jews. Those are all adjectives accepted as a tittle for that particular group, so if people say blacks why can´t we say transgenders?

  • Todd

    So she has a penis. People with penises go to the prison that holds people with penises….people with viganas go to the prison that holds people with viganas.

    Simplified and correct.

  • wolfendenpackleader

    because her old ID had her listed as male. article said she was a MTF pre-operative, so because both ID’s did not match as same gender, that is the problem.

  • waltereg0

    She is male. Regardless of her gender preference, she has a male body, her orientation is heterosexual (she is attracted to the opposite sex: females), she cannot be placed in detention with women prisoners. We can use any pronouns that she prefers, it won’t change the physical reality of what her body is. A male body. She has the mind of a male who is attracted to females. If she was a violent rapist, instead of a harmless visa-violator, who was accused of raping a woman, would you think it acceptable to put her in a cell with a cis (i.e. normal) woman?

  • Todd

    The person has a penis. People with penises go to the prison that holds people with penises….people with viganas go to the prison that holds people with viganas.

    Simplified and correct. Prison does not look at feelings or Male, Female emotional orientation just what goods you got.

  • http://www.greatestescapist.com/ Kate @ GreatestEscapist.com

    Well, that wasn’t what this question was about, but “transgendered” is simply not the correct terminology, & referring
    to people as “transgenders” is nonexistent terminology, particularly
    because the word is, at this time, an adjective & not a noun. Billy asked a legitimate question, & I shared the answer, which is,
    by the way, not up to me because I’m not a linguist or the inventor of
    words.

    I have to ask, though, Todd: does it actually matter to you? You don’t seem to have much respect for transgender people, anyway, so I can’t imagine you’ll care much about using whether you’re using the correct terminology. Go for it.

  • waltereg0

    Transwomen who are pre op are male, as far as their sex is concerned. That makes them heterosexual if they are attracted to females.

  • Todd

    WHEN IT COMES TO PRISON

  • http://www.greatestescapist.com/ Kate @ GreatestEscapist.com

    Oh, that’s a slippery slope argument if I ever heard one. This is like when homophobes insist that letting gay couples marry will result in letting multiple people marry, letting people marry goats, letting people marry children. As such, I don’t have any interest in addressing it with seriousness. Avery broke a visa law; she didn’t rape anyone. Let’s talk about the actual issue at hand, shall we?

  • gfd

    You don’t even know if it’s functional anymore, and she’d definitely sterile, permanently. Still, women rape women and men rape men in prison, lesbian sex has less rate for STDs, but they don’t really care about that.

  • cri$$y red

    i have a hard time with pre op transgender lesbian women thinking the world is against them and the excuse for all bad that happens to them. as far as discrimination at airports and borders lets not forget how hard is has been for any who appears muslim! international travel is even more secure now, everyone is suspect, even little old ladies may have a bomb in their butt. if you’re choose to stay a pre op trans woman, then you deal with the garbage that comes with it. SAID!

  • waltereg0

    Perhaps I’m just more educated on the subject, and it makes it hard for people whose agenda makes them ignorant to keep up with what I’m explaining.

  • Todd

    I respect everyone what I don´t respect is when one group feels more important or deserves special treatment because of their situation…I believe in equality and because I feel a person with a penis should not be housed with a person with a vigana that means I don´t respect them?

    This is about breaking the law and immigration. This is about being housed with your gender. Prison and Jail is not a happy place where they care about your feelings. You strip naked, you go to the toilet in front of others with no privacy. These rules are in place to provide maximum protection for society. Transgenders are taking the opportunity to kick up some dirt for their own agenda. That is what is annoying when the persons detainment has nothing to do with gender.

  • Armo

    So what if tomorrow they decide they want to be a man again? Just thinking something doesn’t make it true. If I decide I want to be some new gender that comes with specific needs I need granted, why wouldn’t that be allowed? Where do you draw the line?

  • cri$$y red

    u said something scary Todd, these whackjobs who want sex changes for sick reasons is disturbing, make me worry about women like me who legitimately made transgender decisions by years of therapy and soul searching.

  • Todd

    common sense speaks again.

  • Todd

    Well I am not hear to judge anyone and maybe my words are harsh but I tend to be a realist. I have never been to prison but enjoy watching all the true story crime shows on youtube. I could just imagine all of the people abusing the system.

    Sadly the prison system does not have the money to take care of every individual need. If people want to pay much higher taxes to open a transgender prison then the problems are solved.

  • Rebecca Blankenship

    I’m so angry I don’t know what to say. Fuck anybody who thinks it’s alright to treat a transgender person this way.

  • Jack Hanson

    Mentally ill man gets detained for breaking immigration law how is this even news?

  • Todd

    And crissy red most people think that just because the person feels like a woman but has a penis they should be in a female prison. I could only imagine what kind of evil that would create by dishonest criminals taking hormones to transfer to female prisons and then rape female prisoners. The lawsuits and taxes to pay for such a situation leads me to believe pre op transgenders are not thinking about society but their own personal feelings.

  • gfd

    Everyone knows that… but they’re keeping her in a male prison even though her passport says female, that is an issue. Adding the misgendering, which I’m certain there’s no law about, so they’re doing that for fun probably.

    How do they deal with people who has ambigous genitalia? Do they just put them in a male prison if it looks too much like a penis, despite having a small vaginal opening?

  • Rebecca Blankenship

    Enlighten us?

  • cri$$y red

    me too, darkdescent channel on youtube i’m a regular and worked for the police in canada for a number of years. it pains me to know that expressing one’s opinion means backlash, and being someone with strong opinions about being transgender get me alot of haters from my own community.

  • Todd

    It is your gender at birth if you are pre op. Which makes complete sense of you use your imagination and picture the carnage that would exist otherwise.

  • waltereg0

    Canadian immigration doesn’t really have any better options.

  • Jack Hanson

    I know! Where do they get off not burning him the minute he stepped ground onto Canadian soil?

  • name

    “There is nothing more unequal than the equal treatment of unequal people.” – Thomas Jefferson

  • AmyJhnsn

    I disagree.

  • cri$$y red

    they want to become a ‘female’ then get moved to the female jail, and live in heaven forever.. not my idea of punishment.

  • Todd

    Yeah I am straight with a strong opinion and gets me a lot of haters too. People think you are cold to their cause but because they are weak with an opinion and you are strong it means you are cold…strange but true. I think everyone should be able to express their opinion and be who they want to be without being ridiculed. Do what makes you happy but of course within the rules of the law!

  • Morgan

    So where should we place bisexuals/pansexuals in prisons?

  • Todd

    For us normal people maybe not but the sick twisted people like paul bernardo they probably feel like they have died and gone to heaven!

    Lets face it people are not in prison because they are straight, honest and have good clean family values(yes I am stereotyping and it is a blanket statement.)

  • cri$$y red

    reality checks needed for alot of people. how can alot of the world be so bad if I, me Crissy Red am able to live in the body of my choice and walk the streets a free person. The world is moving towards general acceptance of transgender people. infact, its moving faster than than gay/lesbian acceptance ever did!

  • waltereg0

    The issue at hand is that Edison is perfectly safe appropriately placed in a male detention center with non-violent male offenders such as herself.
    It’s not a “slipper-slope” argument, it’s a consistency argument. Policy for Trans detainees/convicts ought to be consistent.

  • Steph Inners

    Looks like someone’s never heard of androgen insensitivity, Klinefelter syndrome, etc. Not that this has anything to do with this particular report, but just so you know, some people have two X chromosomes and a Y (XXY), or XXX, or XXY.
    Interesting case about this awhile ago, actually; I’d recommend reading it:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santhi_Soundarajan
    And please take a few biology classes before you start trying to talk genetics.

  • Todd

    “The sweltering summer of the Negro’s legitimate discontent will not pass until there is an invigorating autumn of freedom and equality.” – Martin Luthar King.

  • gfd

    So what do they do with intersex people? There has to be a way they deal with them, and intersex isn’t a new phenomenon.

    Also, what happens when they send her to a male prison? Don’t they have to state her as male, and then what happens to her documents? Can they really deport her to the UK now? They’ll state her as male, but a male person of her identity doesn’t exist in the UK, so she can’t be deported anymore.

  • Bruce Strachan

    “It”s”? How many chromosomes does an asshole have?

  • Victoria Melody Hann

    Too bad it isn’t that simple or even correct. The reason she is being treated so horribly is due to people like you who are completely ignorant.

  • AmyJhnsn

    I would *love* it if you would share some current educational links about gender identity. It would be so helpful if you could provide information to back up your statements. Maybe you would find this article helpful: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dana-beyer/the-fundamentals-of-transphobia_b_4183760.html – among other things, it states “”Sex” includes the cellular materials that make up the sexual anatomy and physiology of a human being, including:
    Chromosomes
    Genes
    The cellular machinery for controlling the genetic material and its expression as RNA and protein
    Gonads
    Genitals
    Other reproductive organs
    Hormones
    Hormone receptors
    Secondary sexual characteristics, such as breasts and facial hair
    Brain (the most important factor)

    Notice that genitals are only one of the 10 categories, yet when a
    religious conservative complains about trans women being “biological
    males,” genitals are the only aspect of human sexuality to which they
    are referring.”

  • gfd

    If it’s to protect other inmates… why don’t they send women into men’s prison, since they don’t pose too much of a threat to men, the other inmates?
    You can’t ignore her safety in this, it’s safer for her to be in a womens prison than a mens prison.

  • Demonthedog

    Certainly simplified, but whether or not its correct is an entirely different debate. Definitely don’t make the assumption that its correct, you’ll piss people off. “Understandable” would be more appropriate.

  • PrincessOfTheCrystal

    It’s transphobia to label her female, it’s transphobia to ask her instrusive questions when her passport clearly labels her as female, it’s transphobia to even consider sending her to a male prison. “Conflicting information” isn’t an excuse. It should be obvious what is happening. It’s easy for you to be blasé about it if you aren’t affected. I’m shit scared.

  • Todd

    I think the world as a whole is moving towards equality for each individual than that of the largest groups accepted by society. There is a long ways to go before every human can walk down the street without ridicule and I don´t think it will exist in my life time but when it happens society can finally turn towards the true goals of life, happiness.

  • PrincessOfTheCrystal

    except there are secondary sexual characteristics as well as primary. sending a transwoman to a male prison is a sentence of rape.

    I’m sorry you get off on rape, todd, but that’s pretty fucked up.

  • Laura McCann

    I’m still at a loss as to why prison is necessary at all.

  • PrincessOfTheCrystal

    “it’s” sex

    Because we are things now and not people?

    Also what if it came back XXY? Or Mosaic? Chromosomes don’t solely determine sex and sex doesn’t solely determine gender. Genetics is a great tool when you actually fucking understand it.

    SOURCE: Lab Assistant to Genetics PhD.

  • Todd

    It is correct because it keeps prisoners safest this way(statistically speaking). That is what is important. Governments make decisions based on money and safety not feelings and rightfully so.

    I say it is correct because I can picture the carnage with it any other way.

  • Todd

    Actually I am preventing rape and abuse of the penal system by keeping the penises away from the vaginas…sorry you get off on carnage. That is pretty fucked up.

  • Todd

    lol, actually I would like to call you stupid but the correct word is niave. It is prison. What is in prison? Prisoners. What do prisoners do? Commit crime. What kind of crimes? Well, rape for one.

    No you want to put the penises with the vaginas.

    That is just niave rainbow world thinking. Yes all Transgenders I can even say they are honest….what about all the dishonest straight males that abuse the system and lie to get into female prisons(never gonna happen right? No innocent people in prison either)….now you have strong, big muscle people with penises with smaller less strong smaller boned people with vaginas.

    Now use your imagination like you are a criminal.

    See the light?

  • JayS

    >female jail
    >heaven forever

    Yeah, okay then.

  • Todd

    Prison does not care about those characteristics…this is about prison right? Not Transgender group´s agendas?

  • Todd

    Actually she broke the law. That is why.

  • Todd

    Why are all the transgender people name calling, slandering and ignorant? All of the people who have called me an asshole, ignorant or stupid I have looked at their picture and they are transgender people. This is what you want to represent yourself as?

  • gfd

    Aren’t they committing a crime by misgendering her? Didn’t Canada, like Iceland, add a law that says you’re not allowed to harass trans people based on their gender identity or something similar… and that’s exactly what the personnel in that prison is doing, calling her by male pronoun even though her documents says she’s female and she identify as female. I’m certain there’s no law that says they have to refer to her as a man in that prison. I really hope she can sue them, and hopefully they learn their lesson so they at least treat trans people with a tiny bit of respect.

  • Todd

    You lose many rights once you break the law. Technically she is not even in Canada yet(if I understand immigration properly) in fact if she is refused entry and put on a plane back to Britain then she never did enter Canada. On top of that the law states prisons look at gender at birth if you are pre op. That is the law and suing will never happen.

    Also what about all the female prisoners rights? They are forced to live with an inmate with a penis? Everyone will be suing everyone!

  • gfd

    If she’s not in Canada then they have no rights to disobey her passport, they can’t use Canadian law to treat her differently than what her passport says. And no, you don’t lose human rights when you break the law… where did you get that from?

  • Victoria Melody Hann

    No, I see no light with you. You don’t get it. To the point that you might need to go research what hormone therapy tends to do to the penis. She probably isn’t raping anyone. You really just don’t get it. The amount of effort that is required to get to that stage, well, heh. The real problem is that you are identifying this girl as a boy. She is not. You are wrong and ignorant.

  • Todd

    you are taking it out of context.

  • WesternShore

    I call people what they want to be called, so I have no problem with not using “transgendered,” (and I don’t use it) but I do have a problem (linguistically) with this — “Adding an ‘ed’ at the end is for verbs, not adjectives.” Um, blue-eyed, red-haired, freckled, etc. Those are all adjectives, not verbs, and they end in “ed.” It’s actually very common in English.

  • Inna

    OMG, word “compassion” comes to mind, Todd, however law abiding and perhaps versed in legal terms, your lack of compassion for a person whose whole world is suddenly turned upside down and maybe their life endangered simply because of visa details, and not their criminal background, is simply a reminder that anyone, even ones who think them selves righteous are capable of looking away when grave injustice occurs.

  • Todd

    Ok, so the rights of the female prisoners have none? This is about her? Or about being put in a male prison because you have a penis? Again, you are agenda pushing.

    So in the female prison when everyone is showering no other female prisoner will object to a penis there?

    THIS IS PRISON NOT FAIRY TAIL LAND

  • Raelinor

    What about intersex individuals, specifically those with ambiguous genitalia, or, more rarely, both sets of genitals? They do exist, you know. They were born that way. So what happens to them? Also, it’s spelled vagina, not viganas… people don’t have viganas.

  • Todd

    oh i get it…I get prison is a mean horrible place and they dont care about your feelings. You know we are talking about prison right?

    And I never said anything about girls and boys….I said penises with penises and vaginas with viganas to minimize inmate abuse. Do you care about the other prisoners? and their rights?

  • Victoria Melody Hann

    No I’m stating that she is female who still has a useless piece of flesh. She is a female prisoner who is having her rights exploited. It’s exactly like putting a woman into a male prison or putting a male into a female prison.

    Using caps doesn’t make you any more convincing. Try screaming it at your screen, it might work.

  • gfd

    Hair and eye isn’t the same as red or blue, if you want to use that example you’d have to use blued-eye and reded-hair.

  • Raelinor

    What about intersex individuals, specifically those born with ambiguous
    genitalia, or, more rarely, both sets of genitals? They do exist, you
    know, and there are quite a few people born like that.

  • Todd

    So what you are saying is the Prison system takes her word about her useless peice of flesh or do they need to run scientific tests to see if this is the case as every case would be different and in every case these tests need to be conducted or just take the prisoners word?

    You are basing your opinion only on your feelings and not what is best for society.

    What about the rights of the other female prisoners? Do they get to decide if they want a penis in the shower with them? Do they not have rights also?

  • gfd

    Safest way is to put her in the womens facility, less likely for anyone to get harmed. She will be the victim in both the mens and the womens facilities, she won’t be the one who’s doing the rape.

  • Demonthedog

    Well generally pre-op’s aren’t lying about their gender identity, so I’d not be worried about safety except for the exceptionally woman-looking man, and the reputation for prison rape (especially on the male side of the bars). You throw a “woman” in there, you’re asking for trouble

  • Todd

    putting a woman in a male prison allows for rape through vaginal penetration which can lead to pregnancy….come again, how is it the same?

  • Todd

    and the women´s rights in the female prison that feel she is a man and has no right to be there?

    What about their rights? You think 300+ female prisoners will all be happy about having a penis in the shower? Or basically f$&$ them? and their rights?

  • Demonthedog

    How does prison rape occur if its just about penises and vaginas? The issue generally comes up from looks, not genitalia. The victims are often the most feminine looking males in the facility, so (as I said in my other response to you) if you throw a man (by genitalia) who deliberately tries to look like a woman, they are so much more likely to be raped in prison than if you throw them in a female facility. Especially as a non-threatening detainee, so the likelihood of her raping anyone is basically nonexistent.

  • Todd

    that is a bit niave. You think rape is about looks? I stopped reading after that.

  • gfd

    If they’re unhappy with it they’ll physically abuse her or rape her… do you seriously think womens prisons are some little fragile girls place?

  • Demonthedog

    I sure as fucking hell believe it is in prison, because its definitely not about their genitals. Believe it or not, the rapists usually don’t identify as gay.

  • Todd

    Quite the opposite that is my point. The female prisoners I am sure willl want to complain, sue and demand the penis gone.

    Your statement completely dismisses their feelings and their rights.

  • Todd

    Sure, male on male rape is about looks….I dont even know what to say. Rape is about humiliation and power.

  • Demonthedog

    That being said, Princess, don’t be too offensive to him, its just antagonistic to say that hes a fan of rape when its uncalled for. Lets try to keep this about the integrity of opinions, not name calling. Its just not in good spirit of debate.

  • gfd

    Earlier you said you lost human rights when you go to prison… did that suddenly change? Also, you’re completely dismissing men, you’re not imagining any one of them being upset with have a woman in their prison (which I’m sure they wouldn’t mind, she’d just be a rag-doll they can rape).
    You’re really backpedaling, you already said it was to keep people as safe as possible, now suddenly it’s about the little fragile prison girls feelings.

  • Todd

    yeah i never called her any names. My guess is she is a transgender pre op representing her group and well, what can you say to that.

  • Demonthedog

    If its just about that, why do the victims commonly have feminine features in prison?

    http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/prison/report4.html

    Also note that first case presented? Sound familiar to the subject at hand?

  • Mochipants

    “Now use your imagination like you are a criminal”.

    I find it highly ironic, and incredibly cruel, that you call her supporters ignorant. You are the problem. You, yes YOU, are the reason why people treat others like crap.

  • Todd

    The transgender people her fail to realize this is about prison. If it was about toilets, restaurants, ladies night, ect…they have a point.

    When it comes to prison, it is cold, careless, heartless and does not care about your feelings. Prison is not their to make you happy or meet your needs. You are stripped searched and a finger in your ass then told to cough, you want to save yourself from humiliation then dont end up in prison. Never going to see a penis and a vagina in the same cell in a prison. Death, rape, lawsuits and abuse will ultimately happen. Maybe not with one person but when you change the rules you will start seeing pregnancy and STDs spread more easily and rape and abuse will be out of control.

  • Mochipants

    Fairy tale*.

  • Victoria Melody Hann

    What if she is infertile ?

    If you think this girl cannot be raped. think again. In fact that’s a good way of thinking of it. What role would she be either as the aggressor or the victim. She would be in the role of a woman either being raped, or raping another. It’s kinda irrelevant anyway. Transgendered women go to female prisons. This person has clearly been recognized as female by her government.

  • LeeWeaver
  • PrincessOfTheCrystal

    Please show me the statistics that show trans people are likely to be rapists. I do not like what you are implying. They are VASTLY more likely to be raped than rape themselves – they have no testosterone for one. Male on male prison rape is already a big issue without you introducing something that has breasts and soft skin. What the fuck do you think is going to happen?

    Rape doesn’t happen just because of there being penises and vaginas and I can’t imagine how naive you’d have to be to think that.

  • PrincessOfTheCrystal

    I’m sorry if I offended the malicious, overly privileged man with my anger. I stand by my points, to be honest.

  • PrincessOfTheCrystal

    Todd that does not mean that any one group should have a more negative or positive experience than any other.

    We are telling you that transwomen in male prisons get raped, and you do not give a shit.

    If Prison is that harsh in the first place maybe we need to look at that, since brutalising prisoners doesn’t really work.

  • Todd

    I didnt say anything about transgender….why is it you people always make it about transgender….what about people who fake being transgender. Think any of those will get past prison officials?
    Right and no innocent people have been executed.

  • Todd

    more abuse by transgenders.

  • Todd

    whats that? You represent your group as a rude obnoxious man?

  • West Nile

    you fuckin tell em todd

  • Todd

    You seem like a smart guy. You know it is the internet. I could post 5 links to your one.

  • Demonthedog

    Prison, in theory, is about rehabilitation- either to release them as better citizens, or to at least help them live a better life incarcerated. The way prisoners are treated should follow this directive to the best of their ability. I believe one’s legitimate fear of being raped in the “wrong” prison should overcome even a group’s general uncomfortable-ness because theres someone with a penis in the shower. He/She likes girls, thats a valid point, but as I said she is not being detained for a dangerous crime, she is not a threat to the other inmates.

  • Victoria Melody Hann

    You really don’t get it, her word? scientific tests? Clearly you have no experience or contact with any transgendered women.

    Your feelings are not what is best for society either. Feelings aside government recognition and approval should be more than enough for this debate.

    Disrespecting transgendered people is bad for society, even in Russia. Yes that is an opinion.

  • Victoria Melody Hann

    Not really to be honest.

    But from what information i’ve received from this article she is not a criminal. What did she do?

  • Demonthedog

    Your points are entirely valid, I agree. Sending a pre-op woman to a male prison is a sentence of rape. I just think that “I’m sorry you get off on rape, todd, but that’s pretty fucked up.” was uncalled for. I don’t mean to offend you in this, but it actually detracts from your point. Basically it ruins your ethos in the argument. Just try to think of that in the future, because as I said you brought up an extremely important point, and it would be great if the person you debated would hear you and not be overwhelmed by your attack instead.

  • Demonthedog

    Please do. Its hard to debate a theoretical link.

  • Victoria Melody Hann

    And that’s your problem there. You are limiting gender by solely their genitals.

    Completely ignore the genitals for a minute. Put this person into a crowd of horny men who have been in prison a long time. She smells like a woman, she feels like a woman, she looks like a woman. She can be raped like a woman.

    She is not a man with the same physical characteristics of a man.
    Take for example how men stare a a nice rack that walks by. Same principle.

  • Demonthedog

    I agree. Especially politically its a terrible move not to respect the gender her country recognizes her as.

  • karma_cannick

    Vagina…….

  • karma_cannick

    Naive……is English not your first language?

  • Todd

    You are hear arguing this article???? You don´t even know what it is about….sad very sad.

  • ignorant

    What a strange world filled with the tails of fairies…

  • Todd

    I believe more non transgender male criminals would end up in female prisons by faking it. That is what they are preventing. They don´t think about anything else.

  • Jane

    Genitalia needs to be the determining factor in where to house people who break the law.

    It’s nice for transgendered people to have a society accommodate the way they view themselves, and not insist for the most part that chromosomal fact determine the label of female or male for passports, forms, etc. Prison is different from job discrimination, for example, and needs to remain that way. Has political correctness removed our common sense? Are people so ignorant of the inherent challenges of the corrections system…? A piece of paper doesn’t negate biological realities. In some circumstances those realities absolutely need to outweigh other considerations.

    For one, I’m upset that taxpayer dollars had to be wasted because another self-entitled douche thinks rules don’t apply to them, that there is nothing wrong with breaking the law. There is so much suffering in our society that could be alleviated with money. Instead taxpayers need to divert money because others think they don’t need to follow the law.

    Edison wants the gender on a passport of a different country, determined by opinions (e.g. what gender you identify with, not chromosomes or genitalia, determines the gender you should be treated as possessing in at least some circumstances) and other factors that translated into law there, to be honoured in another country whose rules Edison chose to break. The “who cares about your law — but if I’m caught breaking it, I’ll direct attention to the fact you aren’t to my satisfaction recognizing the arbitrarily determined gender on my foreign passport.” [Whether Canada would have assigned the same gender based on its own laws is irrelevant. Can't pick and choose which laws of a foreign country to follow, then expect the consequences to be tailored to your preferences]. There should be a mechanism in place for every dollar of costs incurred because of the Edisons of the world to be directly collected from them before or after they are deported.

  • rw

    Probably the full body scanner detected a mismatch. >.>

  • Demonthedog

    Actually I’m curious if you, or anyone has the statistic on how many transgender pre-ops later choose to back out of the surgery (an indication of pretending to be trans). I’ve been trying to find a statistic on that, but its really hard to navigate.

  • Mochipants

    Sorry to ruin your jerk-off session but I’m all woman. I just have low tolerance for hateful shits like you.

  • ignorant

    There is so much male-male and female-female rape within the prison system… Shows how highly you think of men if you believe that just because a person has a penis and is in a room filled with people who have vaginas that they can’t help but rape them. You have a penis Todd, if you were put in a room full of females would you immediately feel the need to rape them? Your logic is ignorant and flawed.

  • Victoria Melody Hann

    I know what this article is about. I read through it and also researched else where. Being denied entry and being a criminal are two very different things.

    Maybe you should read up on it a little more.

  • Guest

    The state has no clue he’s a dude. He self-ID’d himself to the State that he is female. No one felt under his skirt. Until it’s hacked off, he’s still technically a man by definition no matter what the mental state. He’s gonna make a pretty hot looking female though. =O

  • Victoria Melody Hann

    Also, your opinion has already been negated. She’s in a women’s prison.

  • Demonthedog

    I’m sorry you’re being attacked so much. Though I think your opinion is wrong, its an opinion based on a valid argument that I think people aren’t respecting enough just because its not politically correct. Again, I still think you’re wrong for all the reasons I’ve pointed out, but I like that you aren’t afraid to support your belief. Stick with that (though be willing to accept that you’re wrong if it becomes apparent to you)

  • Todd

    you know the article is about prison right? All the people that fake being transgender do they let them into the female prisons too?

  • Todd

    when talking about male prisoners faking being transgender to get into female prisons the transgender people here ignore that.

    They also ingore the rights of the females born female who dont want penises with them…transgender or faked transgender.

  • Demonthedog

    She planned on getting sent to prison when she applied to be officially recognized as a woman on her passport? I don’t know, that seems a bit fishy.

  • Demonthedog

    But for sure, when its just someone stating that they are transgender with nothing to support it, its an entirely different story.

  • ASW

    As a psychology student, with an actual understanding of relevant theory and proven theses, it is appalling to read such ignorant and unsupported ‘opinions’ as expressed by some persistent individuals in this thread. A factual concern in societal structures is the belief that freedom of speech advocates for ignorance. I may be young, but something many of my colleagues and mentors, and basic elders have ALWAYS so effectively stated is that, “if you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all.” When you receive academic credentials in the assessment psyche and/or sexuality, please feel free to express such ‘naive’ thoughts, because they are nothing more than that – beliefs in your uneducated mind influenced by the various micro, meso, exo and macro systems that shape your shallow minded life.

  • Todd

    No she is in a mans prison. Sorry you read it wrong.

  • Todd

    what hate is that? Preventing women from being raped by men who pretend to be transgender.

    Nice, real nice.

  • Todd

    Room or prison….we are talking prison right? You need to get the facts right…So yes a room full of prisoners, rapists, murderers and thiefs.

    Man people really live in this world? Really I hate to call you stupid but this is about prison…..man really tough to keep it honest.

  • waltereg0

    Don’t Canadians have any rights of free speech? If they call a male person, who identifies as a woman, by a masculine pronoun, then they’ve committed a crime?
    “Misgendering” just means not playing along with a person with a psychotic delusion that their body is somehow “wrong”. What you call misgendering is just recognizing physical reality.

  • WesternShore

    In “blue-eyed boy,” “blue-eyed” is an adjective. It just is. Ditto “red-haired.” Yes, “eye” alone is a noun, as is “hair,” but the compound is an adjective, an adjective that ends in “ed.” “Red-haired” is, idiomatically, the same as “redheaded.” Are you more comfortable with the latter as an example, since it isn’t hyphenated? Because surely you wouldn’t suggest sticking that “ed” in the middle of “redhead.” My point is that it’s incorrect to say adjectives don’t end in “ed.” “My depressed mother.” “My frazzled brother.” “My annoyed sister.” Again, I don’t say “transgendered person,” but the reason I don’t say it is because I know it’s offensive, not because it violates the norms of English grammar.

  • Demonthedog

    we’re making it about transgender because this is about transgender. I guess the clear issue here is that you fear she may be lying about her transgender status. I don’t think she is (at least not intentionally) because she has applied for official recognition by her country as a female.

  • gfd

    She’s legally female, even if there’s no law against harassment towards transsexuals, they’re simply harassing her. It’s like a guard on a female prison continuously calling a prisoner by male pronoun, despite the female prisoner complaining about it.
    There’s only a law on where she should go, but she’s still legally female.

  • Todd

    no no no, it is not about her its about transgender people think a person who feels that they are a woman that commit an offence again Canada belong in a female prison regardless of having a penis.

    And to that I say, if the law allowed those people in female prisons then what about the people that fake being transgender to get into female prisons?

    Just tell me that would never happen and end of debate.

  • waltereg0

    People with Gender Identity Disorder are suffering from a psychological condition which makes them unable to accept their own body. You can’t expect them to argue logically and calmly given that mental disorder, one which makes their life traumatic even when everyone plays along and addresses them by their preferred gender, they still have the problem of being unable to accept their own body. You have to expect irrational anger and try to empathize with their predicament, same as you should for anyone with a mental issue. At the same time we have to recognize reality when making prison policies.

  • Todd

    how about pre ops that never set a date?

  • Demonthedog

    unless there are other circumstances (like lack of funds) yeah I think thats a sign too.

  • gfd

    What are you trying to say, other than that you’re studying psychology?

  • Todd

    it is a very high possibility criminals who pretend to be pre op transgender females would end up in female prisons and then male on female rape would occur.

    After all the are con artists(some of them) It is their ability to con people.

  • Demonthedog

    I agree, the potential exists, and if her gender was questionable I think your arguments would have merit. I’m just not sure if its a rational fear in general (which is why I asked for a percentage)

    But in this particular case where all the signs point to her truly identifying as a woman and seeking a transgender operation, do you not agree that her treatment is ridiculous and, potentially, cruel?

  • gfd

    So transgender-personed? You do realize the “ed” is at the end, not the beginning. So yes, if you want to write transgendered you’d have to write blued-eye, which is wrong.

  • Todd

    rules are not arbitrary.
    . Laws do not make decisions based on individual situations.

  • Demonthedog

    But thats theoretical, I don’t even know of any cases where someone is a registered pre-op transgender in order to get into a different prison so that they can rape, or on a milder scale look, at women. I’d expect to have heard of it if the possibility was truly very high. Seriously I just want to know the statistic. I’d rather not make an assumption on this point without some evidence supporting either side.

  • Todd

    When did I say I dont give a shit? Interesting. I have posted 100 messages. Show me that one and I will apologize,
    my guess is you used your woman filter.

  • Todd

    Who put you up on the high horse? Listen to your own advice youngen.

  • Demonthedog

    A very important point. I mean, come on- don’t break the law, and you don’t have to deal with this shit.

  • Juan Carlos Garcia

    Well, is not that what she is looking for: To be surrounded by men. Well, she got what she was looking for, so why is she afraid? Enjoy yourself and you may encounter some painful material for your next 4 leg comedy.

  • Demonthedog

    “Do you know what makes you a woman? Identifying as one.”

    I disagree with using this statement as an argument since thats just a new-age view and is widely disputed since it is only a de facto definition, and is clearly a poor argument to someone who is disillusioned with this more modern view.

  • Todd

    I agree, I think prisons are making people worse…we actually agree on something. I am a Canadian living in Europe and their system is far and away better then Canada and less violent with less repeat offenders.

    Society has the idea of locking people up and throwing away the key.
    Personally I think Prisons are big enough that a whole housing unit can be assigned to people with different needs but they just dont give a shit and never will.

  • Demonthedog

    “Please do. Its hard to debate a theoretical link.”

    sooooo this never happened…

  • Stealth2

    Not on the same level, of course, but I got stopped for about 45 minutes in an airport there as the customs agent tried to figure out whether the fact I was coming to do a (non-paying) poetry show required some sort of special permit. He checked books, made phone calls, looked at my passport 24 times, then finally let me go through when he couldn’t find anything that covered poetry. Music, sure. Acting, no problem. But poetry?… I went away feeling a little bit insulted, actually.

  • kim irwin

    I am most concerned that we, Canada a self proclaimed accepting and evolved counrtydo not in this day and age already have any guildlines and facilities in place for a situation like this. It cant be an unexpected happening. Strange but sadly not surprising. Full hot 49 yr old hetro attatched female commenting, btw.

  • Stephanie MacDonald

    You’re so uneducated and ignorant it’s laughable. Your only argument is that, “She has a penis, she’ll rape other female prisoners.” And you can’t even word it intelligently. If you think rape ONLY consists of a male penetrating a women, you are so, so, so wrong.

    The point being, she’s a women. Her government recognizes her a s a women. Therefore, if she committed a criminal offence… she goes to a women’s correctional facility. Oh, and just because it’s housed with women doesn’t mean it would be a cake walk. Now do the world a favour and go get your GED.

  • Todd

    Do you even take into the account the fanancial capability and the Budget Canada sets forth when it comes to handling prisoners? On top of that training, and different facilities for people with different requirements?

    You have no idea, you are ignorant learned a few lessons and think you are Sigmund freud.

  • Rob

    Avery has a legal, government document classifying her as female. The process one has to go through to get this is long, arduous and requires assessment from numerous councillors. There’s actually a very low possibility that a male criminal would be able to legally change their gender to female to be placed in a female prison in order to rape their cellmates.

    This is a tricky one and dealing with trans and intersex prisoners is something modern prison systems aren’t designed to do. It’s dangerous for the prisoner to be placed in either a male or female prison, but then solitary confinement is deeply damaging too. The best option would be a private cell in a women’s prison with private shower and toilet facilities (or a private time slot), with supervision in social hours (for the safety of someone in Avery’s shoes).

    ‘Penis with penis’ is too simplistic a view on this. Why not ‘breasts with breasts’? Prison systems, as well as having a duty to punish and rehabilitate also have a duty of care towards their prisoners, and sadly this has been neglected in Avery’s case.

  • Demonthedog

    Wait I’m confused now. I haven’t read updates- This article definitely has her in a man’s prison despite her gender identification as a woman. Have they transferred her?

  • Todd

    Well Briton has the strongest boarders in the world. She is a bit Niave to think she would walk into Canada like nothing ever happened after breaking her immigration agreement by overstaying her visa.

  • Todd

    iam ignorant….no you are ignorant.
    Do a little research.
    The law states you are assigned to the prison of your gender at birth if you are transgeder pre op. Right or wrong that is the law.

    Try educating yourself…..Also what reason is to seperate men from women? Other then rape? Sexual abuse and harrasment.

    Again educate yourself you are very ignorant.

    How about male prisons who fake being pre op transgenders to get into female prisons.

    We are talking about criminals, murderers and rapists.

    Do you even think of the female prisoners in the female prisons and their rights?

    Damn you really are ignorant.

    Forget about GED just keep your mouth shut you are bringing the overall IQ of woman as awhole in the world. Yes just you alone with your ignorance does it.

    See being rude is not nice and does not feel good. Try getting your point across without being rude and ignorant. It can hurt you too.

  • Demonthedog

    Certainly rules are not arbitrary. But rules can also be wrong for a variety of reasons including being outdated, influenced to heavily by the wrong morals or politics, or even just because they were rushed. As I said, I think any good judge or lawmaker would find her safety more important than the comfort of inmates.

    also “laws” do make decisions based on individual situations. Thats what judges are for.

  • Todd

    still never gonna see a penis with a vagina.

    Might see a separate prison for special prisoners though. I am actually surprised that this does not already exist in Canada.

  • Possum_Stirrer

    What’s a ‘vigana’?

  • Possum_Stirrer

    Yeah, I reckon you’re right you know. I reckon that a man probably WOULD put in the long con of living like a woman, changing all his identification to say he’s female not to mention his name, and telling all his friends and family that he’s female just so he can commit a crime and be sent to a women’s prison.

    By the way, it’s ‘naive’.

  • benny

    Well Todd i have to say in many years i have not come across such an ignorant fool as you , you clearly have a fear of any thing that you do not consider normal, sadly in life some people are born with thoughts and feelings of the wrong gender to their body, this is a curse to their mind and life , they are what they feel they are , not what the body they are in says they are, if you don’t have the intelligence to realise this , then may be you should get a job at immigration control, clearly you and they are well suited ,
    having a penis does not make you a man , do i understand your point of view yes i do , as blinkered as it is , i do understand what you are saying , but at the end of the day this girl is just that a girl, and in a mens prison she will be a target for every deviant there may be that can reach her , the fear she will feel will be as a girl thrown in among a group of sex starved monsters,
    clearly you do not have daughters , you need to wake up and realise not every one is lucky enough to be born as they should be ,, thankfully these days some thing can be done to give some normality to people that have the misfortune of being born in the wrong body, frankly i’m disgusted with this government that does not have the brains to know what is clearly staring them in the face , what has happened so far will in it self leave the government open to a lawsuit , the reason your passport says what you are is so those that are not sure , are clearly guided in the right direction , get over your fear , and realise , as ignorant as you are , you are lucky,

  • Stephanie MacDonald

    I have a degree and I know the law. There’s a reason this is news and people are outraged, and it’s not because of a solitary penis. Please, take your transphobic and sexist attitude elsewhere. You are not winning this debate, because it ISN’T a debate. Because you have zero logic or moral integrity.

  • Todd

    are you stupid? Or just a nazi police?

    It is friggin 4am here and I speak 3 languages…what about you?
    I am actually going to tackle Spanish this year and try to learn the guitar too….

  • Todd

    I dont care what they think but they are representing themselves and very poorly mind you.

  • Demonthedog

    Ok but this case is about Avery Edison. She is being temporarily detained on a charge of overstaying her visa. She is clearly not an obvious risk of sexual harassment or rape of other inmates. However, she is of a very high risk of being raped if she is placed in a male prison. She identifies as a woman, and has gone through a very long process of getting her country to recognize this, not as some ploy, simply because she felt she was a woman. Those are the relevant facts that I think you are straying from in your arguments as you try to hold on to your perceived honor in being correct (sorry if I’m wrong on that, but I see it happen a lot in what I do sometimes as well).

    Now, ignorant’s point (also that was probably a poor name choice bro) is that even if she was a man, do you really see this person who is being arrested on an overstayed visa as a risk to female inmates just because she has a penis? Because that is like saying that you’d be a risk to a room full of women just because you have junk in your jeans. I certainly like to think that I wouldn’t be, and that the majority of men are decent enough to not be so controlled by their penis that they are inclined to rape just because they around women.

  • Demonthedog

    I think that would be a fair compromise.

    If only there was the money and resources to do that.

  • Todd

    why are lesbians, gays and trangenders making it all about them?
    Plus all the hate they have for straight people?

    What about the right of other prisoners? I have no fear of homosexuality, transgenders and crossdressers.
    I just base my point on everyone´s rights.

    As I said 5 times before. You people need your own jail, prison.

  • Possum_Stirrer

    Oh, do you? Let me guess. Now, we know one of them isn’t English, but I’m going to say…..Fuckwit, Imbecile and Shitbrain. Did I win?

  • Todd

    Well the transgender, lesian and gays and not thinking about other people´s rights here at the moment. Everyone has rights. Putting transgender pre ops with female born inmates in my opinion violates their rights.

  • Possum_Stirrer
  • Todd

    Well I have not lived in an English speaking country in about 4 years, it is 430am now and I am using a German keyboard with takes a bit getting used to. It is not your standard QWERTY keyboard but a QWERTZ keyboard. Which I hate but the electrical is different here so no point in having north american style computer since the government expects you to assimilate.

  • Todd

    according to the law?

  • Todd

    nah, prefer to learn electric over acoustic but thanks!

  • Bobisadrummer

    Looks like Avery is forgetting to check her privilege.

  • Diane Keller

    Todd…it would never happen. End of debate. Now STFU, you’re drunk.

  • Todd

    Have you lived in a non English speaking foreign country? My guess is not and you only speak English. You wouldn´t speak that way if you did. Ignorance is in your words.

  • Demonthedog

    I think the focus on their rights is a valid point. I guess I’m just more focused about the weight of the damage of the potential outcomes.

  • Todd

    like I said, seperate prisons for everyone.

    Same as a transgender woman can you really put a pre op man in a mans prison….hell no that boy wont make it through the night.

    So what is it really about….for the transgender people it is about feelings, for the people who are not biased it is about rights.

  • Todd

    Judges make decisions based on previously determined precedents, rarely do they set their own precedents…..nice try.

  • PrincessOfTheCrystal

    Yes, and the physically, disenfranchised transwoman is the one in the position to be doing this? The one who’s actions we should be more concerned over? Rape isn’t solely about looks but you’re reducing the fact that she is a woman to her looks. Rapists tend to target women – not other men. A woman – regardless of her junk, a person that you wouldn’t be able to tell ordinarily was anything but female, is of course going to be a prime target for rape in a MALE prison.

  • PrincessOfTheCrystal

    How is it “statistically speaking”? Where are these statistics of transwomen raping cisgender women? There are transwomen held in female prisons without any problems and to my knowledge there haven’t been any reported cases of rape. However, for transwomen in male prisons? They will be raped more often than not. This is fact.

  • PrincessOfTheCrystal

    I am thinking about a female prisoner here, one who does not even have the good fortunate to be places in a female prisoner.

    This is the same nonsense used to keep trans people out of bathrooms and all sorts of things. Show me some statistics that show us to be rapists.

  • Amy Isabella

    People with viganas?!?

  • Hazel May Lebrun

    What’s a vigana? Is it like… a vegetarian? OMG… they have prisons for those?

  • PrincessOfTheCrystal

    Oh my god you are not helping your case at all.

    We don’t “hate” straight people. However we are victims of institutionalised discrimination and even violence(yes, imprisoning a transwoman in a male facility is a violent act – a rather extreme one I would say) for our identities. You are not. Straight people are not oppressed.

    You have failed to demonstrate how the rights of other prisoners would be affected. You do not seem to understand that transwomen do not present a greater threat as potential rapists than the average ciswoman. I’m sure other types of women have advantages in terms of rape – what about women that are bodybuilders, atheletes, butch dykes etc.? Should we place them in male prisons now for the safety of everyone else?

    A penis is not the only way to have an advantage in raping someone. Also MOST TRANSWOMEN DO NOT HAVE FULLY FUNCTIONING PENISES. If you knew anything about transwomen you might know this. WE HAVE BARELY ANY TESTOSTERONE. OUR DICKS AND BALLS SHRIVEL UP TO HALF THEIR SIZE AND RARELY BECOME ERECT. We are chemically castrated.

    We don’t need to focus more on the straight, cis people because that’s all that society fucking focuses on. We don’t need to be segregated into our “own jail” and I can’t imagine how incredibly tax ineffective that would be.

  • Victoria Melody Hann

    You really are a fucking idiot, seriously. It’s right on CBC.

    Avery Edison, a U.K. comedian and trans woman, was detained in a men’s
    correctional facility but has now been moved to the Vanier Centre for
    Women in Milton, Ont. (@aedison/Twitter)

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/transgender-woman-avery-edison-moved-to-women-s-jail-after-outcry-online-1.2532392

  • Amy Isabella

    Do you have any idea how much work it takes to have the sex on a persons identification changed?

  • PrincessOfTheCrystal

    Also you are basically calling her a rapist when all she did was overstay on a visa and have the misfortune to be born trans. That’s pretty fucking gross.

  • David S. Wellhauser

    This is a typical problem with the TransGen community…where to put them in a dialectical world. The problem will not go away and will not be solved because boxes are too useful for the hoi polloi. I do not wish to say they s/he is going to have to deal with it, but they are going to have to deal with it. Doing anything else is too expensive for the penal system and the Canadian taxpayer. Harsh? Yes, but there does not seem to be any other realistic response to frontiers of sexual identity.

  • Bobisadrummer

    So I’m confused. Avery was born a male, but identifies as a woman, but is dating a woman as well. Is Avery gay or uh… Are we sure this isn’t just part of the comedians stick?

  • Lisa Marie Garver

    I think there is a rule that you aren’t allowed to use a word if you can’t spell it correctly. Yea, I’m making that rule right now.

  • WesternShore

    Again, I don’t WANT to write or say “transgendered,” because it’s offensive. I’m not trying to be rude, this is a sincere question — Is English not your primary language? If it were, I think you’d recognize that, while “transgender-personed” is structured like an adjective phrase, it isn’t idiomatic, and I honestly can’t come up a noun it would logically modify. “Transgendered person” would be an adjective followed by the noun it modifies. This is absolutely, recognizably idiomatic to any native English speaker. You are, by extension, seeming to argue for redhead-personed (as opposed to “redheaded person”), and you must know that isn’t correct. Also, what noun would you imagine “redhead-personed” modifying? “The redhead-personed girl”? I can’t imagine any native speaker coming up with that construction. It would be “redheaded person” or “redheaded girl,” but never “redhead-personed girl.” A somewhat similar construction to the way we use “eyed” and “haired” in adjectival formulations is “freckle-faced.” We say someone is “freckled,” and we say someone is “freckle-faced,” but we don’t use “freckled-face” as an adjective. (That is, we say “She has a freckled face,” but “She is a freckle-faced girl.”)

  • Sunny Bishops

    fuck guys, you’re both right. transgendered people should get to be where they want. There may ALSO be fakers whom we should definitely try to catch onto. In the case of this chick, she is not a faker.

  • Jess Hill

    Who are these people that “fake” being transgendered to get into female prisons? Todd I feel like your argument is a mute point unless you can back it up with a substantial case of a man successfully ‘faking’ being a transgendered woman and serving a sentence in a female prison facility. The chances of this happening legitimately seems rare

  • jasper

    Todd, a dictionary might assist you her for starters. Secondly, did you SEE her picture? She is prime candidate for sexual assault in an all male prison. Thirdly, overstaying a visa while a student hardly makes her a hardened criminal. Then of course there is the issue of what happens to the penis of a transgender woman on hormones, clearly your education is lacking. Her official identification is FEMALE. She should be treated as such.

  • Sky Atherley

    Seriously with everything a transgendered person has to go through in order to get their ID changed along with telling those around them which at times leads to them losing many that they care about. You really think that that is something someone is going to fake ? Its not easy to transtion!! She is female there fore she should be in a female prision not a male

  • ThatOtherGuy

    Even if her ID says female and anything else says female. She still has a penis, she is pre op, so they cannot put her into a female prison. The world still addresses gender by genitalia and even if she is recognized as female by her government she cant expect the same treatment from another since again she is pre-op. She HAS to go to a male prison as messed up as that is :/ I hope she gets out ok and can continue on to her gf. I wish you luck Avery

  • John Bateman

    this guy is one of the most sickeningly ignorant people I’ve ever seen. Do you know how complex it is to be identified as “trans” the amount of trouble a criminal would have to go through to “fake it” so they could be put into a female prison to rape other females?

    You’re a colossal moron, the fact is that often when people who identify as female who have penises are put in jail with cisgendered males they are attacked, beaten, and raped more often than not.

    You are incredibly ignorant to the proceedings, so please learn, and try to expand your incredibly narrow minded view.

  • John Bateman

    give me ONE citation where a male prisoner has faked being transgendered to get into female prison. If you can’t then it’s a statistic you’re making up. Guys don’t feed the troll.

  • John Bateman

    You’re all stupid and being trolled by this “Todd” person.

  • John Bateman

    Are you actually confused? or are you just being a fucktard?

  • John Bateman

    ay bb u wan sum fuk?

  • JessicaSideways

    Todd, let me make something perfectly clear to you, she is not a criminal – she is in immigration detention because they wouldn’t fly her back to the UK nor grant her a valid visa. She will remain in immigration detention until her hearing, which is why she is in the jail.

    Now, did CBSA handle this situation correctly? Initially, no, but she has been recently transferred to a prison with people of her gender (per CBC Toronto). What they did initially is contrary to the Charter, it is a human rights violation, specifically violations of her rights under Sections 7 and 12 of the Charter.

  • http://www.myspace.com/belindashort belindashort

    So now you are assuming that a transgender woman is a rapist. Absolutely she should be in a female prison if she identifies as female. Can you imagine what would happen to her in an all male prison? If she identifies and presents as female, other actual criminals will hurt her. You clearly don’t know anything about this.

    If they were concerned about the other women, they would just keep her in solitary, better than sending her to stay with men. That would be horrifying.

  • http://www.myspace.com/belindashort belindashort

    You have no rights in prison, remember? If she is legally female, she goes to a female prison. LEGALLY.

  • http://www.myspace.com/belindashort belindashort

    This is his only argument that makes sense to him and the 4 people who are upvoting his bullshit so he is sticking with it, even though it makes no sense.

    Becoming transgender to be accidentally put in a women’s prison so you can sexually assault someone sounds like a bullshit storyline on FOX News.

  • http://www.myspace.com/belindashort belindashort

    You keep talking about ‘faking’ transgender. You can’t fake it. To legally change these things, you have to go through counseling and legal process. Your stupid tin-foil theory makes zero sense.

  • http://www.myspace.com/belindashort belindashort

    You don’t know anything about prison, do you? Women in prisons are given birth control regularly as it is. You are really reaching at straws.

  • http://www.myspace.com/belindashort belindashort

    Stop assuming that all transgendered women are rapists. What is your obsession anyway?

  • http://www.myspace.com/belindashort belindashort

    I wouldn’t bother responding to him. He is clearly obsessed with rape.

  • http://www.myspace.com/belindashort belindashort

    They only care about they identify as legally, so in this case its female.

  • http://www.myspace.com/belindashort belindashort

    Stop talking about rape. I don’t know why you are obsessed with it, but you’ve made your point, badly. What you are saying makes no sense.

  • rob

    They love to f@###ck with people’s lives. Too much power to boarder agency.

  • http://www.myspace.com/belindashort belindashort

    There is no such thing as faking being transgender. You need to educate yourself before you look any more foolish.

    *Though I’m not sure that’s possible at this point.

  • Laura Vanderwoude

    She overstayed her student visa. While illegal, this is not a criminal act.

  • beenwiser

    How a person identifies can get them harassed fired abused attacked and even murdered. If you think of that as “meaningless”…

  • Alecta

    Todd, transgender psychology and sexuality is extremely complex and personal. How about you butt out since you have no clue. I’m cis, I’ve read a lot of case studies and first-person accounts to support a friend, and I know enough to know that this is something you couldn’t begin to understand without going through it. Moreover, it’s an individual journey, deeply personal and not your business.
    Also, the word is Naïve.

  • Alecta

    Dude: you can’t fake transgender. Can’t.

  • Alecta

    Britain. Borders. Naïve.

  • Rebecca Herring

    Please name one male who faked being transgender for anything.

  • Josh Meeks

    Though you have a valid point in the fact that she is legally recognized as a woman the rest of your post is as bad as Todd’s. For starters if you had the cranial capacity to read through his bad English you would understand that what he’s saying is that it is the other female prisoners right to not be housed with someone who is anatomically male, though Avery is legally recognized as female there’s still some hanging junk there that many women would likely not want to be showering with.

  • Rebecca Herring

    Todd, you know exactly how she will be abused if she goes to a male prison. This is about her rights, not your fairy tale convoluting of female feelings and rights. YOU are the one worried about inmate feelings.

  • https://www.facebook.com/Justin.D.Whitehead Justin D. Whitehead

    Please ignore the sexist, ignoramus named “Todd” who has been commenting
    below. The only person he treated as an equal, and didn’t talk down to, during the entire
    conversation was another male. He has no understanding of what trans
    people go through to get a government issued ID of the opposite sex, and
    seems to believe that anyone with a penis is a rapist.

    “Todd’s” ignorance is a scourge to all sexes and genders a like. Please disregard his comments.

  • https://www.facebook.com/Justin.D.Whitehead Justin D. Whitehead

    I am a white male, born a white male, and I am telling you that your views on this topic wreak of ignorance. You have also called many others ignorant, among other things, in your posts so please don’t try to play the victim now.

    How about instead of fighting against hundreds of people who are telling you that you’re wrong, you stop and think for a few minutes about why that may be so.

  • Guest

    Avery Edison is a disturbed male, with a penis; he is not a female. He could have made arrangements to get a temporary visa, but instead he chose to break the law. In some countries he would never be heard from again, and certainly not allowed to whine incessantly on Twitter to all his sycophants and enablers. Such people have no respect for laws or boundaries but think they can do whatever they please. Coddling them only makes them more brazen. It serves him right to find out the hard way that there are limits to how far he can push his luck.

    But now the weaklings in Canada have given in and transferred him to a womens’ prison. It is not surprising that a country so deluded that it thinks it can marry two males to each other, and mandate the acceptance of such a travesty by all of society, would make such an error. They fail to realize that there are limits to a government which is permitted to exist only at the discretion of the people who consent to be governed, and it seems the people themselves fail to realize that unless they forcibly remove these wrongdoers from the government they will continue to commit such offenses. It is time for an end to their vacillations and a return to propriety, or else Canada must learn to keep quiet about the measures taken by other countries to curb the excesses of perverts and troublemakers, as Canadians are in no position to complain if they can’t clean up the mess in their own country.

  • Amelia Elias

    Oh boy, now we’re into “legitimate rape” territory. Really, Todd, when you find yourself at the bottom of a deep hole, stop digging. You’re WRONG, dude. Go educate yourself. You need it.

  • Guest

    This is what is truly baffling. Edison is a male, with a girlfriend, but he wants to become a female and end up, what, a lesbian? Why not just be normal?

  • Guest

    HE is biologically a male. Not everyone lives in fantasyland.

  • Amelia Elias

    Todd’s been ranting about “fake transgender” this whole time and now says he didn’t say anything about transgender? We DO have access to the scroll-up feature, Todd, as well as memories that last longer than 3 seconds. You’re hung up on a situation no one but you has ever even heard of, the “fake transgender” prisoner just out there lookin’ to rape all the viganas–to be honest, I’m not sure what a vigana is, but they’re highly rapeable, apparently. You also seem to be equating overstaying a visa with violent crime (perhaps rape?). Really, everything you say is fact-free hate speech. Now tell us not to worry our pretty little heads because you and your penis will protect us little ladies so we can sleep sound, because that’s about the only way you could get more condescending and wrong.

  • Amelia Elias

    That would never happen. Really. A manly, dick-swingin’ rapist man would never go through intensive hormone therapy that shrivels that big ol’ raping dick and makes it useless sexually, endure months of psychiatric counselling, and go through the legal pain-in-the-ass it takes to change gender on legal documentation just in the HOPES that MAYBE, someday, if he’s really really REALLY lucky, he’ll get sent to a women’s prison for overstaying a visa (instead of getting sent back to the home country right away, which happens fairly often too) to await a hearing.

    That.
    Would.
    Never.
    Happen.

  • Amelia Elias

    How long do you wait before you determine they’re NEVER going to set a surgery date? And who gave you that right to pass judgment on something so deeply personal?

  • Amelia Elias

    Still waiting for anything that backs this up. Still smelling bullsh!t.

  • Amelia Elias

    Haven’t yet seen anyone who disagrees with you preface their comment with “I’m a transgender person and…” It’s a pretty big assumption you’re making that everyone who thinks you’re building a massive straw-man is trans. And you know what? I’m not going to tell you if I am or not because hey, it’s NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. Male, female, trans, whatever–you’re still wrong.

  • Amelia Elias

    I’ve been enjoying your posts, Demonthedog, but I have to disagree that he’s got a valid argument. Hormone therapy of the kind MTF trans people undergo results in impotence. Her ability to rape anyone, *even if she wanted to*, is exceedingly doubtful at best. (I’m a nurse, btw, in case that helps for some reason.)

  • Amelia Elias

    … carnage? CARNAGE? Wow! Avery has gone from a rapist to, what, a serial killer now? Todd, I just don’t get it. I really, really don’t.

  • WarOnMugs

    Self proclaimed is not the same as actually being progressive and accepting.

  • Amelia Elias

    Why are you calling anyone a lesbian? How did that even come into play? *facepalm* The stupid is strong with this one.

  • Amelia Elias

    You’re right. She’s in for a tough time wherever she goes. The best solution out of all these bad ones would be for her to be sent to the women’s facility, given a cell to herself, and to be heavily supervised during any communal times such as meals.

    That she should shower ALONE, PERIOD, shouldn’t have to be stated.

  • Diskusser

    I don’t understand what is fascinating about a person being detained for a visa violation. This person’s gender does not imbue every single event in her life with specialness and newsworthiness. What’s the next headline? “Transgender comedian get the flu and tweets about it”? Here is something else that should not be news: “Backwards-Ass People Who Haven’t Caught Up With Amazing And Very Positive Societal Changes Still Exist, And Sometimes You Will Encounter Them, And Sometimes It Will Be Sucky, But Guess What, Those Jerks Cause Everyone Grief At One Point Or Another In Life, And It’s Not Very Interesting.”

  • Amelia Elias

    Then take a day–you know what, not even the full day, maybe 4 hours–and do some actual RESEARCH, on reputable websites that aren’t run by people with an agenda, on what it takes to transition from male to female or female to male. Read case studies. Watch videos. Look at pictures before and after hormone therapy. If you do speak 3 languages (2 more than me, and I’m not doubting you), you know how to learn and you have the intellectual discipline to study. This is a challenge. EDUCATE YOURSELF ON THIS because trans people aren’t going away just to make you more comfortable. Nor, incidentally, are gays, lesbians, bisexuals, etc etc etc.

  • Amelia Elias

    Sex =/= gender. Really, people still don’t know this?

  • Amelia Elias

    I’m going to say that the rights of an accused person (she hasn’t been to trial yet, nor judged, nor sentenced) trump those of guilty, sentenced inmates.

  • Amelia Elias

    Male taking female hormones = chemical castration. They’re not raping anyone.

  • Amelia Elias

    So your longing for acceptance and equality for each individual, so they can seek happiness, that’s why upthread when someone disagreed with you, you responded “you’re probably a lesbian”? Todd, just… *shaking my head*… wow.

  • Amelia Elias

    I really love that you posted this, because it makes the point of everyone arguing AGAINST you. This is about HER safety, not the safety of the prisoners. Thanks for this. “a situation which puts male-to-female transsexual women at great risk of sexual violence.”

  • Amelia Elias

    Because a trans woman’s penis doesn’t work. You’d have better luck stuffing a raw oyster through a straw.

  • Amelia Elias

    There is so much hate on this comment thread–I wish I could say I’m surprised. But let me share something. I called the very first trans person I ever met by her preferred gender on accident–she looked very feminine. And she cried. Back in the exam room, she told me about all the people who still called her “sir” and by her birth name despite being told otherwise. She told me about losing jobs because of her trans status. She told me about being beaten up and spending a month in the hospital. What prompted this sharing of the worst parts of her life? I called her Miss [chosen female name]–I was the first person to do so–and it was an ACCIDENT.

    She really changed my world-view that day. Any thought I’d given to trans people before that encounter consisted of a little shudder and “wow, that’s weird” or “they’re just seeking attention.” Afterward? Now I had a face to put with that shudder and you konw what? She definitely was NOT seeking attention. And the types of attention she did get aren’t the fun kinds, because I’m pretty sure that getting punched and kicked wasn’t all that happened to her during that assault. It sounded like pure hell, and I thought, “Why would ANYONE go through that unless it was truly, deeply, irrevocably their reality?”

    So to your transphobes who insist on calling trans people by their birth names or gender, I have to ask you, what does that mean to you? You get a brief flash of superiority or satisfaction? But if you just treat them like a person, like another human being who deserves kindness, that could mean the world to them.

    tl;dr–Don’t be a jerk. You have no idea the suffering trans people go through, and whatever little thrill you get out of denying their gender identity isn’t worth making another human suffer and feel like sh!t.

  • RT

    I think that Canada Customs is fundamentally dysfunctional and needs a major review. This case is one example but here’s another: when the nationals of other countries travel home the only questions they’re asked pertain to what they’re bringing back with them. I’m also a British citizen and get waived through when I go to the UK on my British passport. When I return to Canada on my Canadian passport, I’m asked what my job is, how much I earn, how long I intend to stay, and all kinds of other invasive and irrelevant questions; as a Canadian citizen I can come home regardless of whether I’m employed or have any money in the bank so such questions are a pointless intrusion. I have yet to have the nerve to refuse to answer, lest I end up having an experience like this woman’s, but I can’t see how any court would support what CC is doing.

  • waltereg0

    That opinion article is just trans-propaganda.
    In addition to genitals, a pre-op transwoman has male chromosomes and genes (that’s how she would have been born male in the first place), male reproductive organs such as gonads, and a male brain. Her brain is male because female and male brains have distinctly different makeup, and by the time a transwoman switches her gender the brain is already molded as male. After puberty it’s too late to change the brain through hormones. Only her secondary sexual characteristics have been changed, depending on the hormones she’s taking and cosmetic changes she is making.

  • waltereg0

    I have a fair idea of the suffering Trans go through, being trans is a very serious psychological disorder, and it remains traumatic regardless if society used their preferred pronouns and such. Because they can never escape the psychotic delusion that they are in the wrong body somehow. Trans persons should be shown empathy just like any other person with a mental disorder. But it isn’t like their problem is solely the ‘transphobia’ that they encounter. If all ‘transphobia’ in the world ended they would still be unhappy, because their body is ‘wrong’ to them.
    The healthiest solution is for them to accept that other people will often not regard them by their preferred gender, and try to be at peace with their body being not what they wish it to be.
    All of which doesn’t change the fact that it is not appropriate to place a MTF transwoman, a male who has a heterosexual orientation, in a prison with regular women prisoners. That would place them at risk for assault.

  • Amelia Elias

    And you miss the point entirely. Well done.

  • Amelia Elias

    And I disagree, btw. The healthiest option would be for them to seek intensive psychological counselling (oh wait, they do that) and then to change their body to fit what their mind cannot change, which is their actual gender not matching the body. And for people like you not to be judgmental jerks to them, too, incidentally. That’s far healthier than just accepting a life of unrelenting misery, which is your ludicrous suggestion.

  • Todd

    are you retarded? understand my point then respond.

  • Amelia Elias

    No, I’m not retarded, but as the parent of a mentally handicapped son, I should inform you that there’s another word you need to learn the meaning of, and I do understand your point–it’s just a bullshit point, that’s all. So I take it from your reply that you’re declining the challenge to learn more about what a trans woman’s penis is and isn’t capable of doing before you spread more of your rape nonsense, then? Okay. You know, ignorance isn’t bad–to be ignorant just means you don’t know yet. Willful ignorance, the refusal to learn, well… that’s just sad. I’m just glad I don’t have to actually know you. That’s awesome for me.

  • Bob Bell in hell

    Canada’s still part of the Commonwealth isn’t it? What is our High Commissioner there doing about this?

  • Eddie Gaps

    Maybe she was treated unfairly, but I bet she left out the part where she was talkin shit to the authorities

  • Todd

    Cool so by me asking you if your retarded means you are calling your son retarded as you are associating the word with your child. I was not you were.

    Secondly If you don´t know my point how can you argue it? Turn of your woman filter and come back.

    I know why transgender people are housed with their reproductive organs….my question is do you?

  • Amelia Elias

    I’m using the word in its proper medical context–mental retardation is a diagnosis. You’re using it as an insult and a synonym for stupid, bad, idiot, etc. It’s like calling someone the n-word. You can’t do it and then say “oh, I didn’t mean it THAT way…” Yeah, you did mean it that way. At least have the balls to own it.

    But actually, I’m done talking to you, because you’re willfully ignorant and unwilling to educate yourself or even consider that maybe, just *maybe*, the reason you’re getting roasted on this comment thread (and don’t kid yourself that you’re coming off well, buddy) is that you’re wrong. To simplify it so maybe you’ll understand, you’re a troll. And we don’t feed trolls.

    Come back when you’re ready to talk to grownups and I’ll even turn off my woman-filter, just as soon as you turn off your asshole-filter. Deal?

  • Todd

    lol, so you are retarded.
    RETARDED
    slow or limited in intellectual or emotional development or academic progress
    That is webster´s dictionary meaning.

    You are associating the word with your son not me. I feel sorry for you. You think your son is retarded that is your choice to feel that way.

    It is like you calling me ignorant and then telling me you mean it in the sense of not known when society accepts the meaning as rude.

    Lol, woman filter on!

  • Todd

    So again….Do you know why the jail system puts penises with penises?

    You think they care if a man´s penis works to determine the placement of an individual? You think every case is the same when it comes to a man claiming to be a woman?

    Sorry I live in the real world and the Topic is PRISON.

    I am not naive and ignorant like you to think no male prisoner would infiltrate a female prison for the purpose of rape under the guise of a pre op transgender female.

    Also on top of that does that mean transgender males get to go to male prisons? You think that person would make it through the day? Or is this only about the rights of the transgender female and no one else?

  • Todd

    Let me help you….
    Scenario one
    Transgender female pre op(with a penis) is put into a female cell because that is what YOU want.
    Female celly wakes up and sees penis NOT woman first thing in the morning.
    Female celly is a rape victim. How does female celly now feel? What about the female prisoner´s rights? Do they exist in your world?

    Scenario two
    Sick twisted rape convict fakes taking hormones and grows hair long. Why not? He will be in prison until he dies because he commited murder and rape. So he claims his penis no longer works and is a transgender. He is now transfered to a female prison. According to you, no assesment is needed other then the transgender person´s word.
    Now female prisoner wakes up and sees penis. She was a rape victim(not that it matters). How does she feel? What about her rights?

    Do you need more scenarios? Feel free to rebut my points.
    As I stated previously. Transgender poeple should be in a seperate prison NOT a woman´s prison. This is about everyones rights, no?

  • Guest

    because they are Canadian! Retards.

  • Amelia Elias

    No, I’m well supplied with your imaginary scenarios, thanks. Some links to cases of this ever happening would be nice, tho. Get back to me. (Also, re: the retarded thing, you don’t understand how medical diagnoses work, do you? Does someone “associate their child” with diabetes, or Downs Syndrome, too? Sheesh… the stupid, it burns!)

    Really, truly done with you until you come up with some facts to back up your transphobic hysteria. See ya, troll.

  • Todd

    oh you want some links…here you go. Prison does not allow it. That is the law. Hence prevention. Thanks for coming out.
    http://www.reclusiveleftist.com/2009/09/04/this-is-interesting-transgender-rapist-to-be-moved-to-womens-prison/

    Enjoy.

    Yes that is transgender women commiting rape on women.

    Grow the F$%§ up and join the real world.

  • Todd

    lol, what does diabetes have to do with retardation….stay on point lol. Woman filter on!

  • AmyJhnsn

    So no, you can’t offer anything to support your position?

  • waltereg0

    They haven’t done anything. Her gender is whatever she asserts it to be. All that affects is what pronouns people use if they want to cater to her preference. Her sex is male. That’s what actually matters. The authorities can’t help but recognize that.

  • AmyJhnsn

    You come across as ignorant when you’ve already been given the actual definition of “slander” and continue to insist that people who are trying to explain that you’re wrong are “slandering” you. So there, I just called you ignorant (sort of) and, shock and surprise, I am cisgender. It’s not about gender, it’s about people who understand things like respect.

  • waltereg0

    Canadians are sensible people. Not swayed by political correctness to ignore physical reality of this transwoman being of the male sex. Which means they can’t put her in prison with regular woman who would then be potentially (though it’s unlikely in this case) at risk of sexual assault.

  • Todd

    How can an opinion be wrong? Sadly transgenders have tried to oppress my opinion and call me names. Something I never did(only after they were very rude by making it personal by verbally asaulting me). I never told them they are wrong only that I feel I am right. Transgenders have some growing up to do if they want to be taken seriously.

  • AmyJhnsn

    Well, if you believed that the earth was flat, that would be an opinion and it would be wrong, wouldn’t it? You might be a nice person, but when you insist on arguing from a position that is designed to hurt others, it’s pretty hard to see it. You are hurting people with your words and then acting like you’re being treated unfairly when they respond in anger. :-(

  • Todd

    Actually do you know the difference between opinion and fact? lol by this statement you dont. If you “Think” the world is flat that is you stating a fact based on knowledge available that is not subjective but has an absolute answer.

    An opinion is a statement based on ones belief on SUBJECTIVE matters.

    That means a topic without absolute certainty. Maybe that is too complicated for you. So your analogy you gave is actually very ignorant and wrong.

    Stupid people say stupid things.

  • Todd

    As for hurting people. Every choice has the ability to hurt people, including putting transgender women with female inmates.

  • Todd

    Sorry I live in Germany not Canada. There is a huge time difference. I guess that makes me ignorant because in my time zone the news was given correctly but changed.

    I am happy Canadians have compassion.

  • AmyJhnsn

    Well, to be fair, I haven’t read every comment here, and you were the person who mentioned “opinions” without clarifying what those opinions were, so I was talking in generalizations. Science is always discovering new facts where before there were only opinions or theories.
    I take it back about the possibility of you being a nice person. My comment to you was respectful and you call me names after complaining that others have done that to you? Classy.

  • Todd

    Right and the name calling two posts before. Let me guess it is ok for you to call me ignorant but not ok for me to call you rude or ignorant.

    Double standards…..check.

  • AmyJhnsn

    I said that you *come across as* ignorant when you refuse to accept the actual definition of the word slander. I could be coming across as trans* because of the position from which I’m arguing, but that doesn’t make it so.

  • Nicole

    If you are Canadian, then you are not a representation of that sensible people you speak of. Sexual assault happens between cis males and females without any trans component a women in prison do sexually assault one another. 2 parts are NOT scientifically responsible for gender. Hormones are, and thus determined by secondary sex characteristics. Therefore she is female scientifically speaking. 3 This puts you in one of 2 positions, you are either stupid, or stupid and religious. eh?

  • Nicole

    lol, attempting to diagnose all trans people online as “Psychotic” is incredibly transphobic. Further transition is what deals with gender indentity issues. Did you miss the part where homophobia is no longer a mental illness? Nor is a transwoman a male, as she stated many times all her country recognizes that she is FEMALE, and scientifically speaking sex is determined by hormones, and then identified by society through secondary sex characteristics. Stop trying to pretend you feel any empathy or that you think anything is “wrong” with what happened, you are hurting, not helping.

  • Nicole

    Boohoo your religious unscientific view lost out to wisdom, wahhhhh wahhhh.

  • Nicole

    That’s about as stupid as it gets, we do not check people’s pants to verify gender, else we’d have to call you “little boy”. It does matter in many places. Here in the U.S. several states have had SSC cases in which they say anything on an ID is supported by the state. Scientifically speaking you are also incorrect (Gee, imagine that), gender is determined solely by hormones in the body, and identified by secondary sex characteristics. Your view could not explain the numerous sexual inconsistencies in homo sapiens. Such as XY females, various levels or intersexed people, etc. Stop being a hater, and educate yourself, no one “Has” to go anywhere.

  • Nicole

    I am betting on fucktard, lol

  • Nicole

    Morons attempt to use chromosomes and genitals to determine gender. This is unscientific as both can be dubious. People who have androgen insensitivity syndrome appear female, even in genitalia, but are XY. Your incorrect views do not allow for intersexed people to exist, however they do. This like Ken Ham, you’re smoked. So how is gender decided then? By hormones. How is it identified? By secondary sex characteristics. Sorry hater, you lose.

  • Nicole

    Incorrect, SHE has female secondary sex characteristics, therefore biologically female. Gender is not decided by genitals or Chromosomes, that is unscientific as it can not account for intersexed people and others with gender disorders like Androgen

    insensitivity syndrome who are cisgendered females with XY Chromosomes. Sorry buddy.

  • Nicole

    Your argument is fallacious and automatically invalid for trying to use a Galileo’s Gambit. Stop playing the victim after trying to turn those you hate into victims. As for hurting people, you only care about the tiny possiblity that cis women might be offended by a transwoman in the small prison with her, but you discount a transwoman being hurt by male prisoners? Talk about dishonesty, hypocrisy, and double standards you’re full of em. lol Also I see other men calling you out, care to explain why they think you’re an ignorant troll? Stop playing the victim and take your own advice on growing up.

  • Gab Winter

    Didn’t know Canada is such a backward country! No better than a sharia extremist shithole. SHAMEFUL!!!

  • Gab Winter

    Its more likely for her to be assaulted by the people in the male prison than her assaulting anyone.

  • Bobisadrummer

    Can you actually answer the question or are you only capable of insulting others?

  • AmyJhnsn

    Avery is a woman dating a woman, so she is either gay or bisexual (or pansexual.) Why does it matter?

  • Aenon Proxi

    Simple and Clean Todd is a biggoted moron with a one sided view that no conversation is going to change.If I had it my way he’d be dead and so would the people like him. But unfornatly his death is extreme and a isn’t option. So the best corse of action is probably just ignore him.Because we see he’s just a irrational fuck acting for god or some other irrational agenda.

  • waltereg0

    Scientifically speaking her sex is male. Her genitals, gonads, chromosomes, lack of uterus, and yes her brain (which was shaped by testosterone throughout her life from as a fetus up to her transition) too are all sexual characteristics that make her male. If you wouldn’t put a normal male in prison with women, then you shouldn’t lock up a male transwoman in a cell with women.

    You really shouldn’t call anyone stupid when you write a nonsensical run on sentence like “Sexual assault happens between cis males and females without any trans component a women in prison do sexually assault one another.”

  • oopster

    Doesn’t or shouldn’t make any difference, all that matters (in this case) is what her passport says.

  • waltereg0

    You’re presuming to know what kind of person she is. She has a male body and has a heterosexual orientation. So the potential of her sexually assaulting women in prison exists. You wouldn’t put a regular man in a woman’s prison just because he’s short, or of slighter build or lesser strength than most male prisoners.

  • waltereg0

    When was homophobia ever a mental illness? Transpersons have Gender Identity Disorder, which is a psychological disorder. They have a belief that their body is not the ‘right’ body, which is clearly a delusion. They cannot accept themselves as they are, and are out of touch with the reality that their body and mind are one. So naturally I feel empathy for a person suffering with that psychosis. The UK recognizes her GENDER as female, but that is different from her SEX which is male. Gender and sex are two different things. Just because I am informed about this doesn’t mean I don’t empathize with people who are suffering (regardless of how others regard them) from a mental disorder.

  • Aenon Proxi

    Actually for the other readers sake . Trans women under go a processs called Hrt (Hormone therapy), which results in chemical casteration. In nearly all cases it illmenates sex drives all together & errections. But in all cases kills sperm,and tetostrone, .So this most likely wouldn’t happen.Not to mention cis-women could give the same sexually transmitted desieases from intercorse.

    20 percent of women and six percent of college men experience sexual assault or attempted sexual assault during their college years.Data reveal nearly 50 percent of transgender people experience sexual violence. Almost all Trans-women in male prison have reported sexaul assults.But their is no United States, statistics for Trans-related commited sex crimes because it’s to low of a issue to fund a national statisitic.

    Fears,and opinions aren’t facts. how bout we get a few together before we start throwing around accusations.

  • Brandon John Duncan

    You can’t even spell vagina you ignorant idiot. Just shut the fuck up.

  • Guest

    Also, the rape is gonna happen no matter what, if someone is pretty and smaller.

  • Reese

    I’ve read through all of this Todd, and besides this link right here, you haven’t provided any other links to sources, which is why so many people are arguing with you. So far, all your scenarios have been anecdotal evidence, which Wikipedia defines as this: “Anecdotal evidence is considered dubious support of a claim; it is
    accepted only in lieu of more solid evidence. This is true regardless of
    the veracity of individual claims.

    The term is often used in contrast to scientific evidence, such as evidence-based medicine,
    which are types of formal accounts. Some anecdotal evidence does not
    qualify as scientific evidence because its nature prevents it from being
    investigated using the scientific method. Misuse of anecdotal evidence is an informal fallacy
    and is sometimes referred to as the “person who” fallacy (“I know a
    person who…”; “I know of a case where…” etc. Compare with hasty generalization). Anecdotal evidence is not necessarily representative of a “typical” experience; in fact, human cognitive biases such as confirmation bias
    mean that exceptional or confirmatory anecdotes are much more likely to
    be remembered. Accurate determination of whether an anecdote is
    “typical” requires statistical evidence.[6][7]“.

    It’s kind of like in Math class, when the teacher makes you show your work, or otherwise you could of just jumped on your calculator and not actually worked the problem out for yourself. We want to see links that even point to a statistic that backs you up, or you just arrived at this conclusion out of nowhere and in light of the zero evidence you give to support your claims, you open yourself up to intellectual ridicule. Just show us your links dude, and we’ll all get off your back.

  • Brandon John Duncan

    Prison environments need transgendered areas. It’s really the only thing that will work. It is far more complicated than one would think. Most prisons do not allow for cross dressing (although it happens anyway) because it encourages rape attitudes.

  • Brandon John Duncan

    Todd… You need to learn to spell vagina before you start asking about them. I would shut up or use spell check. You look like an ignorant idiot.

  • Brandon John Duncan

    By TG areas, of course I mean pre-op.

  • Brandon John Duncan

    Well.. It doesn’t “encourage rape attitudes” but people are forced to cross-dress due to rape-attitudes.

  • http://itsumademo.livejournal.com Tri

    This is horrifying. Be strong, Avery.

  • http://itsumademo.livejournal.com Tri

    Because men don’t get raped by men in prison all the time, right?

  • Penny Marie Sautereau

    I know all too well what happens to trans women in a Canadian Men’s Prison.

  • Penny Marie Sautereau

    No, that is fucking BULLSHIT. That is NOT a matter of political correctness, that is BIGOTRY and it is contravening Canadian penal code. Her ID says LEGALLY FEMALE, by law she MUST be placed in a FEMALE PRISON. You ignorant fuck.

  • Penny Marie Sautereau

    No, she has a TRANS FEMALE body and she’s clearly a lesbian.

    And no, that potential does NOT exist. There are no documented credible cases of a trans woman committing rape.

  • Penny Marie Sautereau

    You are a goddamn idiot.

  • Penny Marie Sautereau

    Seriously walter, stop talking. Your mindbogglingly hateful misinformed stupidity and ignorance is painful to read, and all you’re doing is proving what a stupid wrong hateful ass you are.

  • Penny Marie Sautereau

    No, you are NOT informed about this. You are spouting hateful inaccurate bullshit, and you CLEARLY don’t empathize. I doubt you even understand what empathy means. You’re spouting hateful transphobic bullshit that doesn’t line up with decades of facts from medical science and research. You are an ignorant bigot, bottom line, and you know NOTHING factual.

  • Penny Marie Sautereau

    Actually by law in Ontario she fucking well can.

  • Penny Marie Sautereau

    Then you’re an idiot who isn’t paying attention.

  • risingsun14

    Congratulations! You are Incorrect and ignorant. Gender identity is not determined by what’s between your legs. If she were thrown in a prison block with male inmates she would at the very least wind up beaten but most likely raped and murdered. That would probably be okay with you though wouldn’t it Todd? People like you disgust me. Call yourselves human beings. *rolls eyes*

  • rehanb_bl

    paying thousands in hormones, surgery, excruciatingly painful electrolysis and laser, never mind the discrimination you have to deal with having to live your entire life as the opposite gender, the hormones killing the ability for the penis to become erect, losing all your physical strength you had from testosterone, then according to you top it all off by getting yourself arrested for an offence so severe that you end up in prison…

    ALL of this just so you can rape one women who is in prison (who let’s say aren’t always the most well mannered or mentally stable people)?

    Last time I checked even paying a hooker would be “better” in every single aspect especially financially

  • AmyJhnsn

    Justin, you shouldn’t get a medal for being a cis white male who Gets It, but darned if I don’t want to give you one after reading some of the comments here. Thank you for having a clue.

  • rehanb_bl

    Yes making news headlines daily…..

  • risingsun14

    It’s funny Todd, but you are perfectly willing to say cis-female prisoners have rights but that a transgender female prisoner – who is recognized as female by the state – has none. Double standard much to make your point?

    You cannot fake being transgender. Transgender woman do not think like men. They do not act like men. After even a few months of hormone replacement therapy they no longer are physiologically like men. I am transgender. I know this as fact because I live it. Don’t take my opinion for it though. Do a little research and educate yourself.

    This stereotype that transgender people are child molesters, rapists murderers and perverts simply because they are transgender needs to stop. This is not Silence of the Lambs. Facts are it is much ore likely that a transgendered individual will be raped or murdered by a cis individual than the other way around. We are people just like anyone else just trying to be happy.

    Enlighten yourself and grow up.

  • risingsun14

    Because the state – unlike Todd – understands the consequences of putting a WOMEN into a men’s correctional facility. Thank whatever gods are still out there for small miracles.

  • Pixx

    Um, except that people with penises who are women are often beaten and murdered in male prisons…

  • CharlieAdamsInKY

    Todd, seriously, what kind of fucking dope are you on? ‘Cause you should either up your dosage or cut it back…

  • http://timbrannan.blogspot.com/ Timothy Brannan

    The issue is Todd are an idiot. But you have proved that repeatedly here.

  • Marianne Detmers

    I agree. I only answered the question.

  • The Masked Menace

    Yet another example of the Canadian Government’s failure to recognize the needs of transgendered people. They need to realize that one’s dangly bits does NOT = gender.

  • The Masked Menace

    Seriously, walter, stop talking. You’re just making yourself look less intelligent and more like an ass.

  • risingsun14

    Backing out of the gender confirmation surgery (GCS) is not an “indication of pretending to be trans.” Many trans men and women choose not to undergo surgery because they don’t feel they need to do so in order to be comfortable with who they are. This is not unusual. Others back out of the surgery because..well, it’s a scary surgery and the recovery is extremely long and painful. Still others need to back out because insurance companies – twats that they are – play all kinds of games with trans* people in order not to shell out their precious bucks. Not really an issue in Canada since the state covers GCS. Well done Canada.

    It’s hard to find statistics of anything related to actual trans people because they are – for the most part – an ignored sliver of the population. Even many in the LGBT community marginalize trans* people. We’re like everyone’s punching bags.

  • West Nile

    todds the man, go todd, tell em how it is.

  • Laura368

    Can you PLEASE stop using the word naive until you actually learn how to spell it! How many times do people have to tell you the correct spelling before it sinks in? Also, you can give up the bullshit about transgender individuals oppressing you. As a cis-male you will never be able to understand the oppression and discrimination that they face daily. Especially since you aren’t willing to listen to them without inserting your perceived superior knowledge of the lives they live daily. You’re pathetic.

  • Juli Richmond

    Todd you need to educate yourself before you enter into the conversion about transsexuals.
    Really you sound pretty opinionated, ignorant and bias.

  • Juli Richmond

    You silly boy, she wasn’t trying to go to Jail, she went to see her love.

  • Alex Burton

    Well first of all she shouldn’t be in prison at all she should be sent back being denied entry. But say a situation arose where a pre-op trans woman had to go to jail, I believe Todd is right you can identify as a woman but you still have a penis so technically you are a man until post op, until that post op you are a woman in a mans body. So to me it make sense to have pre-op in a male prison and post-op in a female prison. You wouldn’t want pre-op male in a male prison he will still have a vagina he will get raped.

  • Rebecca Herring

    No, the article clearly stated she had previously overstayed her visa.

  • Rebecca Herring

    Honestly, Todd’s being attacked for being bullheaded, and I’m not calling him bullheaded because he disagrees with us. He has made a simple argument and merely repeats it over & over. It has been pointed out that Avery’s hormone therapy has shriveled her penis, and he continues to ignore this. He harps on prison rape, and ignores the fact that all evidence suggests Avery would be an obvious victim in a male prison. We post links supporting our view; he claims to have far more supporting his, but has yet to provide one. I appreciate a well thought out, well presented passionate argument of an opposing view, but not passionate bullheaded stubborness.

  • Rebecca Herring

    And he didn’t even mention exactly who he was talking about. Interesting that you saw yourself.

  • Diskusser

    She didn’t have to go to prison at all. Visa violators are always encouraged to go back to where they came from on the first flight back, and they don’t even have to pay for the ticket. If she went to a prison it was because she chose to have her case argued in Canada and not the UK. If she went to prison at all it was by choice. This was her nightmare probably because she knew she was risking prison by attempting to re-enter the country illegally.

  • Buggrit

    It’s spelled Vagina you ignoramus.

  • Rebecca Herring

    How’s about some REAL scenarios? When you take hormones, the penis shrinks and doesn’t work as a sex organ. You are also equating seeing a penis with rape. Also, it seems to me that the solution is to send transgender prisoners to the prison according to the gender they identify with, but to keep them in a separate cell with separate showers from the cisgender prisoners.

  • Gene D Goff

    People, you keep riding todds ass a out being cruel, clueless, and acting like he has a problem with trans people. He does not. Heis simply putting himself in the mindset of the people who have to make that decision.heis correct.in prison, penises go with penises, and vaginas with vaginas. Fuck your passport.you have to realize, for the rest of us, we do not know about what you are dealing with, we arent necesarily uncaring, but ITS NOT SOMETHKNG WERE DEALING WITH. Im just a little tired of being expected to know everything about the situation you guys find yourselves in, while pursuing your happiness.start thinking abojt our side of the fence, and trying to understand us, instead of whining that we dont understand you.theres plenty of shemale porn ppl, and we dont know what process they went thru to become what they are, we just know she has a penis.and she uses it.its not about your gender.its about taking what we know and making the best devision possible with what we know.and trust me, these men have more to do in a day then sit downnandneducate themselves anout one prisoner, when they have so many more behind that one.wake up people, youre only dealing with what the rest of us are.

  • Rebecca Herring

    I read your article. It is about a transgender woman attempting to rape another woman. However, she failed because she was already taking enough hormones to make her penis impotent. So your link actually makes the argument that a transgender female can’t rape another female as you’re trying to argue.

  • Solonge

    why do they stop transgender comedians….why not worry a bit more about extremists intent on blowing up airports!

  • Mochipants

    Gene, we aren’t reaming him out just for his ignorant views. We’re reaming him out because the more he opens his mouth, the more he shows just what a hateful little shit he is.

    And you’re not doing yourself any favors, either. “Shemale porn”? Seriously? What is your problem?

  • Alexus

    What a horrible person you are. People like you just make me sick to my stomach. The authorities just don’t know how to take her because they probably have not come across a woman like her.

  • Jlm Visada

    Actually there is a part you’re not getting. In a women’s prison there are many women with severe hatred of men. (Often it is a well justified hatred from years of abuse, neglect, and being used as a piece of meat by their pimps.) If you put that transgender person in that jail with those women then it’s highly likely that that transgender will be assaulted, and possibly even killed. That’s just taking the segment of the population that hates men. That doesn’t consider all the extremely violent women that might try to actually rape him. (Female on female rape in prisons is almost as common as male on male rape) If a place can afford it they have a transgender area separate from the mens and womens sections, but those are typically more like solitary confinement because resources dictate it. It simply isn’t cost effective to run a transgender jail in the same way a mens or women’s facility is ran. What has shown to be the safest typically is for the transgender to go to the jail that possesses the same genital makeup. They are then housed in with the most violent offenders in the most secure wing. It’s also basically solitary confinement, but while on the surface it looks to be the most terrifying, it actually has resulted in the fewest violent crimes committed against transgender people. The reason they go to the men’s violent offenders if they have a penis is because if they go to the women’s then typically the women in the violent section would try to target the transgender person. They may not be able to get to them, but they cause so much havoc threatening the transgender person that the security has to practically just stand outside that transgender person’s cell the entire time. There are no incidents of transgender people trying to become men being thrown into male cells even though they still possess a vagina that I’m aware of, but there were several reports on transgender with penises being in both mens and womens jails that you can always search if you want to spend the time. It has shown that even in confinement the transgenders were safer in the mens jail.

  • http://www.angelvizza.com Angel Vizza

    People who haven’t broken the law dont go to either one….. which should very clearly have been the case here.

  • Alexus

    You stupid man. Rape does not mean or has anything to do with vaginal penetration. Rape has been recorded in history by various genders. Ok so the most common is man raping women but then you have (very rare) woman raping man – man raping man – woman raping woman do I need to go on.

  • Jlm Visada

    Here’s your one citation of a male faking to get into a female prison. https://www.google.com/#q=man+pretends+to+be+a+woman+to+go+to+womens+jail

  • KneeJerkRationality

    Actually they can’t, trust me on that one. I’ve had cisgender friends flagged for being overweight (apparently body rolls are a concealed weapon!) while I sail through.

  • Jlm Visada
  • KneeJerkRationality

    Please a cite a time where this has happened anytime anywhere on the planet. Then as an exercise for the reader, look up the stats on how often trans women are assaulted in prison when put with men. Go ahead, I’ll wait.

  • Jlm Visada

    yep…they get to go to prison. Here’s a man pretending to be a woman. http://www.wsmv.com/story/19530117/lawsuit-filed-over-man-sent-to-womens-jail-in-nashville

  • Alexus

    Please everyone, ignore this man called todd.

  • Gene D Goff

    Ok first I have no problem. With either you or anyone else. Second, im not trying to do myself any favors. Im trying to help you and others understand that just because we may be able to view it from that side of the fence does not make us monsters. I use the term “shemale porn” because that is what is termed as on the internet.where most people have the only j teraction with a trans person that they will ever have.hence the hormone issue holds no water. For us, we have seen a woman with a penis use it. And then were left with the task of deciding what prison to send a trans woman to.that has bearing. If you want to argue over terminology, thats fine. My faux pas.but the point stands if you look past that.and todd isnt being a douche. Hes just not stating his points very well and going off topic. If you guys want to truly understand him, dont goad him on. Ask him to clarify his points. You want understandjng, give us some.

  • waltereg0

    I have written nothing hateful or inaccurate, whereas you and others are using ad hominem attacks because you can’t contradict what I’m saying. It isn’t hateful or lacking in empathy to describe a person with a psychological disorder as such. What would lack empathy would be to ignore the psychosis and act as if the person wasn’t suffering from a disorder.

  • waltereg0

    You’re failing to realize that many Trans aren’t financially able to get surgery and change their body, or they don’t see what surgery can do as an improvement. And even for those who do change their body, they can never make it into the opposite sex entirely (Edison can never grow a uterus or ovaries, she is dependent on hormones, her brain still corresponds with that of a male because of the impact of testosterone in the womb and childhood). Which causes Transpersons psychological distress, no matter what pronouns others use. That is the misery of the disorder, reacting negatively to people who don’t humour their delusion is just a symptom of the disorder.
    Secondly, a person has no “actual” gender. A person is either able to accept their gender matching their body, or if they have GID then they can’t. This is just how it is, and nothing that I’ve said is judgmental, if I was being ‘judgmental’ then I’d be saying they are ‘bad’ somehow. What I’m saying and you’re refusing to recognize is that transwomen/men suffer from a mental disorder and consequently deserve empathy.

  • waltereg0

    A female body would mean she has a vagina, uterus, ovaries, is XX instead of XY, a female muscle build, and a brain that has the neurology of a female instead of that of a male.
    Your comment that no transwoman has committed rape is ludicrous, googling that has turned up numerous incidents. They are relatively rare because transpersons are rare, and the trauma of suffering from Gender Dysphoria makes aggressive sexual behavior rare, but it happens.
    Penny, if Edison was guilty of a serious violent domestic crime like raping or assaulting her girlfriend, instead of just a visa issue, and you were a convict in jail with her as her cellmate, would you be okay with that?

  • Rebecca Herring

    Okay. We have a drag queen who was told to say he was female. In this case, the female inmates became a threat to him. This was not a case of him trying to rape the female inmates. I think the question in this guy’s case should’ve been would he really have been better off in the male prison. Honestly, if he would still look like a drag queen, or if the inmates found out he was a drag queen, then no.

  • waltereg0

    As an ethical person I feel I have an obligation to oppose rape culture, which is what exists when a person with a male body and a heterosexual orientation is put in a prison with female prisoners and everyone says it’s fine and proper and the female prisoners should just accept it.

  • Guest

    ‘cisgendered’? YOU are crazy.

  • http://destroyedforcomfort.com/ Rani Bakr

    1) Homosexuality was considered a mental illness in the DSM (the primary resource for mental illness and treatment) until 1973.

    2) Speaking of the DSM, “Gender Identity Disorder” is also an outdated term.

    3) Gender Identity Disorder was never considered a “psychosis”. That is a word with an actual meaning, not some buzzword bigots like you can just throw around.

    There is no reason for anyone to take you even remotely seriously on the subject of psychology seeing as you are so massively misinformed on things two seconds on Google could unravel.

  • http://destroyedforcomfort.com/ Rani Bakr

    And putting a female presenting person with female secondary sex characteristics in an all-male prison ISN’T rape culture?

    Or are trans women tolerable targets for sexual assault in your world?

  • http://destroyedforcomfort.com/ Rani Bakr

    Not a “psychosis”. That is a word with an actual meaning, and you are 100% factually incorrect on the way you use it.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    Actually you’ve written a number of things that are inaccurate. You’re just too stupid and self-confident in your ignorance to notice.

  • http://destroyedforcomfort.com/ Rani Bakr

    HAHAHA

    Good luck with your lawsuit, bro.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    No, but we can be sure you’re clueless.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    Help help! I’m being oppressed! Come see the violence inherent in the system!

    /pats you on the head.

    Run along now.

  • http://destroyedforcomfort.com/ Rani Bakr

    Pretty sure if a misogynist dude like you went to a Women’s Prison on the heavily sexist pretense that it’s somehow *prison lite*, you would get shanked pretty quick.

  • Todd

    wow, you are stupid.

  • http://destroyedforcomfort.com/ Rani Bakr

    That’s your entire premise, right?

    That forcing a woman with female secondary sex characteristics and feminine presentation into an all-male prison, even after acknowledging prison rape is an epidemic, is somehow not rape-endorsing but putting a non-violent woman in a correctional facility with other women will suddenly turn her into a rapist?

    Because all you know about women’s prisons is from porn apparently.

  • http://destroyedforcomfort.com/ Rani Bakr

    Pretty sure this dude is sexually fantasizing about a trans woman getting gang raped as we speak.

  • https://www.facebook.com/Justin.D.Whitehead Justin D. Whitehead

    I recognize that I am in a privileged position to speak out against another (likely) cis white male and possibly be heard loudly in his ears. If this is the case, I am more than happy to do as it is simply the right thing to do.

    Privilege should be used to shine a light on, and as a weapon against, ignorance, prejudice, and bigotry of all kinds. It should NOT be used as an excuse FOR ignorance, prejudice, and bigotry as this “Todd” character has chosen to wield it.

  • http://destroyedforcomfort.com/ Rani Bakr

    No that’s your entire point, that you consider women’s prison some sort of sexual buffet, or at best *prison lite*.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    > her brain still corresponds with that of a male because of the impact of testosterone in the womb and childhood

    LOL.

    Robert Sapolsky, and a few dozen neuroanatomists are holding on line 1.

  • http://destroyedforcomfort.com/ Rani Bakr

    I’m genetic mosaic (I started out a pair of twins in the womb, one male one female). I DARE you to take a fully comprehensive chromosome test and hold it up as proof of my gender.

    Maybe then y’all will change my documents to female regardless of penis and noone would have the slightest room to argue. BECAUSE CHROMOSOMES Y’ALL.

    Or better yet, people would realize this is a stupid idea.

  • http://destroyedforcomfort.com/ Rani Bakr

    This has to be the first time I’ve seen someone use the heavily flawed “brain-sex” theory to try to REFUTE trans identity.

    Absurd.

  • http://destroyedforcomfort.com/ Rani Bakr

    I think that’s ultimately what dudes like him hope to accomplish.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    I know, right? It would be funny, if it wasn’t a pack of lies perpetuated against a marginalized population.

  • http://destroyedforcomfort.com/ Rani Bakr

    How does someone “fake” taking hormones? How does someone “fake” impotence?

    Do they not have doctors in your rape-fantasy porn prisons?

  • Why would anybody know them????

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    Again, Robert Sapolsky is smashing his head against his desk while reading your ridiculous argument about the MtF brain.

    That’s a snarky way of saying 100% of the scientific evidence on that is against you, cupcake.

    Have a cookie.

  • http://destroyedforcomfort.com/ Rani Bakr

    I want cupcakes and cookies.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    After reading this man’s comments. I want some $#%(* aspirin.

  • waltereg0

    In case you doubt me, here’s one such case (from Daily Kos, a liberal news source). Richard Masbruch, aka Sherri Masbruch.
    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/07/23/1112262/–Male-rapist-put-into-women-s-prison

  • http://destroyedforcomfort.com/ Rani Bakr

    You’re not preventing rape by imagining up fake scenarios that defy reality while endorsing the idea of forcing women with female secondary sex characteristics and feminine presentation into all male prisons.

    You’re encouraging it.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    Ahh, the Buffalo Bill argument. How classy.

    LOL. Next you’re going to bring up Richard Speck.

    Let me ask you something. Was this person ever diagnosed with gender dysphoria?

    Quite a few other conditions can lead someone to believe they are gender dysphoric.

    So again, another case of someone who we have no reason to believe is actually transsexual.

    Your fear-mongering is cute, however.

  • http://destroyedforcomfort.com/ Rani Bakr

    Nobody’s oppressing your limp man-feelings.

  • Guest

    1) It’s still a mental illness, caused by the trauma of childhood molestation. The APA was coerced. Their decision was far from unanimous, only a third of them even voted on it, and it was for political reasons, not because of any new scientific discoveries. Homosexualism remains a disorder no matter how much you try to bully people to accept it as normal. They never will, because it isn’t.

    2) The DSM is mostly worthless now. You may consider Gender Identity Disorder an outdated term, I just call them messed up perverted freaks and they’re not allowed in my neighborhood. THAT is unanimous.

    3) See above.

    There is no reason to take you seriously either. You’re some sort of inter-nerded homotard, with too much time on your hands. Why are you trying to destroy peoples’ lives with your stupid ideas? You need to sort yourself out, get educated, be tolerant, don’t be a hater, save the whales, suck a lemon, save a bundle on your car insurance at Geico, whistle a happy tune, shovel the driveway, make me a sandwich with all your baloney, five, six, pick up sticks…

    You’ll have to excuse me now, something’s on fire..

  • http://destroyedforcomfort.com/ Rani Bakr

    The statistics that show that rape and violence against trans prisoners contained in prisons consistent with their birth assignment approach epidemic levels while the violence trans prisoners enact while housed in correctional facilities congruent to their transitioned gender are minimal to non-existant?

    Or the statistics in your highly-evocative rape-fantasizing imagination?

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    >It’s still a mental illness, caused by the trauma of childhood molestation. [ citation missing ]

    >The APA is American, and was coerced. [ citation missing ]

    BTW, if trans people are so good at coercion why do they have such a hard time keeping people from treating them like dirt?

    > The DSM is mostly worthless now.

    [ citation missing ]

    > I just call them messed up perverted freaks and they’re not allowed in my neighborhood.

    I’ll go where I want to. What do you think you’re going to do about it, tiny little man-child?

    > You’ll have to excuse me, something’s on fire..

    Apparently the tattered remains of your masculinity.

  • http://destroyedforcomfort.com/ Rani Bakr

    You sound so rational and persuasive, with such cogent presentation of your perspective.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    ^ LOL

  • Guest

    >Look it up. I’m not your nanny.
    >I was talking about the homosexuals, but a fruit is a fruit.
    >Check the parking garage.
    >No you really won’t.
    >You’re not tough.

  • http://destroyedforcomfort.com/ Rani Bakr

    lol you are a peach

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    In other words, you’ve got nothing.

    Thanks for playing.

    PS: I’m tough enough not to threaten people online.

  • Guest

    Please stop making sexual advances toward me.
    It gives me a rash.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    Sh*tweasel troll is trolling.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    I don’t think you have anything to worry about in that regard. LOL

    Besides, I thought you and waltereg0 were already a couple.

  • Guest

    Nobody invited you to go there. You couldn’t afford it anyway.

  • http://destroyedforcomfort.com/ Rani Bakr

    One’s a real word, one isn’t.

  • Guest

    Frankenstein was so misunderstood.
    Have you hugged your monster today?

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    *points at you*
    *laughs*

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    David Dunning will be sending you a fruit basket.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    Oh no! That’s not what my birth certificate or the Department of Social Security, or my passport or my driver’s license, or my employment information says. It’s not what my parents, my doctor, my friends, people that encounter me at the grocery store, or my boo say, either.
    But I suppose we should believe you, random Internet stranger.

  • name

    You don’t get it at all. Would you treat someone in a wheelchair the same as an able bodied person? No. You would install a ramp, have desk a reasonable heights etc.. So, two different people can access the same things.

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-EUTcgq8d1Jg/Ud3nrIXyFTI/AAAAAAAAFRY/m4VFyQnRkps/s1600/Picture1.jpg

  • Guest

    Oh? How were you threatened? I just said you’re not allowed in my neighborhood, and you’re not. I never said you’d be found in a metal drum with two rattlesnakes and a badger at the bottom of a swamp. That was just your imagination. I guess you think you can push your way around and go anywhere you like, other people be damned, but you can’t, and neither can freak-boy Avery Edison. See? He’s been sent back where he came from.
    Learn to internet, hippie.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    > I just said you’re not allowed in my neighborhood, and you’re not.

    I’m already in your neighborhood, princess.

    In fact, I’m

    Right

    Behind

    You

    > you can push your way around and go anywhere you like,

    Last time I checked, it was a free country.
    You’re a coward.

  • Guest

    How do you know he’s a man? Maybe he’s an intersectored transmogrified jambalya fruit cup. I’ll just have the salad, I ate a big lunch.

  • Guest

    Sounds wonderful. Next time you blow through a toll booth without paying you can just tell them it’s a free country, and you should be allowed to just barge right into their living room and make a mess on their floor, and they have to like it because you’re a special snowflake and you deserve to deserve things.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    Your false equivalency is cute.
    PS: Mow your lawn.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    Shorter idiot: “So in this imaginary hypothetical that I just concocted, would you be okay with that, vs. the very real scenario of getting attacked and raped, or forced into solitary in a men’s prison?”

  • Guest

    *points at badger*
    *laughs*

  • Guest

    Do us all a favor: pull your lip over your head and swallow.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    You’ve earned enough nickels from me, princess.
    So now I’m going to do the same thing that every woman ends up doing and I’m going to ignore you.
    Carry on, just don’t expect I’ll take part.

  • Mochipants

    *sigh* He’s probably posted this all over the MRA subreddit by now, anyway.

  • Arklytte

    Wow…strawman much? I love how everyone is just piling on Todd (who btw is troll level ‘fucking expert’) when people like Jlm Visada put up perfectly cogent arguments, backed up by factual research, yet noone responds to him. Basically noone seems to like debating with someone who backs up their arguments, they’d rather just scream at the troll because he’s ‘an asshole MAN’. Hate to tell you this, but that makes you just as bad as him.

  • Bobisadrummer

    Again with the insults… what is wrong with you people? You want tolerance and you can’t even respect others…

  • PrincessOfTheCrystal

    No it doesn’t since we’re not the ones who are lashing out against an oppressed marginalised group. His words and views have weight against how we are treated, it doesn’t work both ways. In fact I’d even wager that the views of people like him have more weight in how WE are treated.

  • waltereg0

    Both those scenarios are hypothetical.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    No, the latter actually happens, pretty frequently, in fact. That makes it not hypothetical.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    Who is “you people?”

    I see no reason to tolerate other people’s ignorant belief systems or bad behavior, and if you have to “tolerate” someone simply for being different than you, you’re doing it wrong, and you need to get over yourself. In short, you’re absolutely right I’m intolerant, because tolerance means making excuses for bigots.

    Newsflash: Who you are and who you sleep with aren’t the same thing. Not even a little bit.

  • http://destroyedforcomfort.com/ Rani Bakr

    Then why the dehumanizing gender neutral pronoun?

  • Bobisadrummer

    Oh, sorry I’m not privileged enough to have been able to meet a bunch of people who have to belittle others when they ask a question. But that’s okay, because even if a handful of them are like you, I think I’m happier than I haven’t. How about your get over yourself?

  • Taylor

    You keep spelling naive wrong. And also, I don’t know what Briton is. I think you meant Britain.

    That is all.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    Stop asking stupid, sexist questions, and I’ll stop giving you sarcastic answers.

    If you wanted to know the difference between transsexual and homosexual you could have simply googled “what’s the difference between transsexual and homosexual”, or even just asked that in the first place.

    Instead you asked a loaded question, and followed it with a baseless accusation, and then you started whining about tolerance.

    /yawn

  • Bobisadrummer

    You didn’t have to answer, but you did, with a useless answer at that. Why? I don’t know. Maybe it because you’re so full of yourself you just HAVE to see your negative opinions all over the internet?

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    I’m pretty sure she has female parts.

  • Jodi Pongratz

    Victoria you are well wasting your breath. Aside from Todd’s assumption that prisoners are bad people, that Todd needs to defend the rights of female prisoners to “not be raped” as if segregating the sexes acheives this-this ignorant person has gone so far as to mispell “vaginas” and “fairytales”.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    No I didn’t have to, but sometimes I do things even though I don’t have to.

    But one might wonder why you’re even in here offering your ridiculous opinions, considering that nothing about this has anything to do with you.

    Maybe you’re projecting.

  • Rolo Tomasi

    Todd, I’m having a real hard time processing your ignorance. You started with a patently absurd argument, then when presented with facts rebutting your claim, instead of accepting your error and walking away, you double down on stupid. I can only hope you are fully aware of how inane your argument is and are merely trolling for the attention you lack in real life. I hope this is the case, because the alternative is you really are as ignorant as your comments make you seem. If you truly believe any man would go through hormone replacement therapy, petition the government to have his gender legally changed to female, then commit a crime in the hopes that he will be sent to a womans prison where he might have the chance to rape a woman even though the hormone therapy has altered him greatly on a biological level including giving him breasts amongst many other drastic effects then all I can say is wow. Sounds like a pretty airtight plan to me.

  • Bobisadrummer

    Ever hear the expression “Pot calling the kettle black?” That’s you right now. You want a ridiculous opinion!? Maybe it’s something that hasn’t crossed your mind because your head is so far up your ass thinking that you’re some activist fighting against bigotry on the internet that you can’t comprehend this…

    So how about, now just hear me out, this might blow your mind…

    How about it doesn’t matter if Avery identifies as a man or a woman? How about the bigger issue of, why was a PERSON (not a he or a she, but a person), detained and jailed over a visa issue and not sent back on the next flight out of town? How about that!? That doesn’t matter to you though… right? That’s just ridiculous!

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    LOL, why are you being so intolerant?
    *giggle*

    Actually, I’m not fighting anything on the Internet. I’m arguing with strangers. My activism is done offline, where it actually matters.

    In any case, I don’t know Canadian immigration law. I *do* know US immigration law, and it’s not uncommon to jail people here before deporting them.

    That said, regardless, there’s certainly a problem here in terms of housing a woman in men’s facilities. That’s nothing short of an egregious human rights violation anyway you slice it.

    You should yell some more though. You’ve got a little vein that pops out on the side of your neck that is just *precious!*

  • Bobisadrummer

    Oh, so you don’t actually know anything about this… Which means you don’t actually know what the fuck you’re talking about! That’s cute. You can claim you do activism offline, but your 2688 comments say otherwise. If you actually were, you wouldn’t give two shits about comments on internet.

    By the way, according to Canadian Law, you get placed in facility according to what genitalia you have, not based on your feelies.

    But hey, keep trying to play that cool person role, it’s like you came and insulted me first or anything.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    LOL, actually, I know plenty about housing trans women in the wrong facilities, and I know a whole lot about being trans in general, but thanks for playing.

    > If you actually were, you wouldn’t give two shits about comments on internet.

    If you think I do, you’re hilarious. My day job involves working at a shelter for homeless teens. I also foster a refugee from Oaxaca Mexico and have helped his family members get U-Visas, but your presumption is adorable.

    > By the way, according to Canadian Law, you get placed in facility according to what genitalia you have

    And that’s a human rights problem.

    > it’s like you came and insulted me first or anything.

    Actually, your initial comment was pretty damned offensive. And your followup whining was pathetic.

    And now you’ve gone from whining to screeching. It’s really quite precious, but as it happens, I’m bored already. Do a little dance for me.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    Quoting lines from Grumpy Old Men is a bit pathetic, but fitting.

  • Bobisadrummer

    Sorry, if my continued comments came off as me actually caring about you or anything you do but if you keep up the narcissistic posting I’m sure someone will.

    And you’re still full of yourself.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    Oh no. Random Internet stranger has an opinion about me.

    Whatever shall I do?

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    Freedom of speech doesn’t equate to freedom from consequences.

    If you go around misgendering her people are liable to think you’re confused, or an a55hole, depending on whether or not they realize she’s trans.

    I guess you’ll have to find a way to cope with that.

    Boo hoo.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    [ citation missing ]

  • Bobisadrummer

    I don’t know, maybe not break 3000 comments tonight and go get some attention else where? Maybe get some help? Maybe do something better with your time. Whatever it is, good luck. Pretty sure you’ll need it. Either way, I don’t care, I’m done pretty much done here.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    If only you had made that decision in the first place.

    You realize that 2000+ comments is across all blogs, over the life of my account? LOL, silly little man.

    Anyway, my boo wants to cuddle.

  • Nagichan

    I don’t see anyone “faking” anything here. Obviously you need to do some research on transgender. No one is faking and no one is trying to get somewhere with insidious intentions. You are kinda like an ostrich with their head in the sand, you see nothing but dirt. Lift your head out, look around at the way things truly are and then rejoin this conversation if you’re not too ashamed and embarrassed by yourself to do so.

  • waltereg0

    Robert Sapolsky believes that the male brain is indistinguishable from the female brain? That years of exposure to hormones during fetal development and childhood have no effect on the brain, they don’t produce a brain that is different between males and females?

    Sorry but 100% of scientific evidence is against you, pumpkin.

  • Bobisadrummer

    It’s funny that you use the “little man” insult so often. It goes to show how totally full of shit you are. I’m sure you’re “boo” just love to cuddle with a sack of shit.

  • waltereg0

    Does aspirin enable you to become more informed or tolerant of different points of view? Better make them extra-strength then.

  • waltereg0

    The latter scenario only to transwomen who present themselves as female, thereby announcing their vulnerability to the prison population. Transwomen who are concerned for their safety could simply identify as a man and blend in, being no more at risk than any other male prisoner. A woman in a cell with a male transwoman has no place to hide from her. You just can’t do that to a female prisoner, even if assaults are statistically infrequent. You’re supporting rape culture by saying that a female prisoner should have to accept being in a cell with a male heterosexual transwoman.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    So umm, you don’t think the fact that I have noticeable breasts, visibly smooth skin, and a feminine face will have *any* effect on my ability to “present as male” – of course ignoring that being forced to present as male would be deeply triggering, not that you’ll *ever* understand that.

    And even then, the lack of muscle mass and reduced bone density doesn’t exactly lend itself to self defense.

    You’re supporting rape culture by openly advocating for putting someone in a situation where they’ll almost certainly get attacked and raped.

    You’re an absolutely ridiculous person.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    I’m more informed on this issue than you’ll ever be. In fact, I’ve forgotten more about it than you’ll ever learn.

    And no, I have no intention of being “tolerant” – especially of men with rapey belief systems. I never have been, and I never will be.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    > Robert Sapolsky believes that the male brain is indistinguishable from the female brain?

    No he does not.

    Not only is brain sex *not* a myth, but MtF transsexuals have significantly feminized brains.

    Lack of androgen exposure in utero is exactly why their brains are feminized to begin with.

    You do *not* have any idea what you’re on about.

  • waltereg0

    That’s highly ironic, you saying I have rapey belief systems, when you’re the one enabling rape culture by advocating the policy of putting male heterosexual transwomen in jail cells with other women.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    What was that about 100% of the science?

    You are so completely wrong I’m about to make your silly head spin.

    Excerpt from one of Robert Sapolsky’s lectures at Stanford, on IS conditions within the TS brain.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3C4ZJ7HyuE

    Here’s the research he cited, plus a whole lot more. (Against which, you have exactly nothing, of course)

    Peer-Reviewed Papers on Nuerological gendered differences in the transsexual brain

    Male-to-female transsexuals show sex-atypical hypothalamus activation when smelling odorous steroids. by Berglund et al Cerebral Cortex 2008 18(8):1900-1908;

    http://cercor.oxfordjournals.org/content/18/8/1900.abstract

    …the data implicate that transsexuality may be associated with sex-atypical physiological responses in specific hypothalamic circuits, possibly as a consequence of a variant neuronal differentiation.

    Male–to–female transsexuals have female neuron numbers in a limbic nucleus. Kruiver et al J Clin Endocrinol Metab (2000) 85:2034–2041

    http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/85/5/2034.full

    The present findings of somatostatin neuronal sex differences in the BSTc and its sex reversal in the transsexual brain clearly support the paradigm that in transsexuals sexual differentiation of the brain and genitals may go into opposite directions and point to a neurobiological basis of gender identity disorder.

    Sexual differentiation of the human brain: relevance for gender identity, transsexualism and sexual orientation. Swaab Gynecol Endocrinol (2004) 19:301–312.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15724806

    Solid evidence for the importance of postnatal social factors is lacking. In the human brain, structural diferences have been described that seem to be related to gender identity and sexual orientation.

    A sex difference in the human brain and its relation to transsexuality. by Zhou et al Nature (1995) 378:68–70.

    http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v378/n6552/abs/378068a0.html

    Our study is the first to show a female brain structure in genetically male transsexuals and supports the hypothesis that gender identity develops as a result of an interaction between the developing brain and sex hormones

    A sex difference in the hypothalamic uncinate nucleus: relationship to gender identity. by Garcia-Falgueras et al Brain. 2008 Dec;131(Pt 12):3132-46.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18980961?dopt=Abstract

    We propose that the sex reversal of the INAH3 in transsexual people is at least partly a marker of an early atypical sexual differentiation of the brain and that the changes in INAH3 and the BSTc may belong to a complex network that may structurally and functionally be related to gender identity.

    White matter microstructure in female to male transsexuals before cross-sex hormonal treatment. A diffusion tensor imaging study. – Rametti et al, J Psychiatr Res. 2010 Jun 8.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20562024

    CONCLUSIONS: Our results show that the white matter microstructure pattern in untreated FtM transsexuals is closer to the pattern of subjects who share their gender identity (males) than those who share their biological sex (females). Our results provide evidence for an inherent difference in the brain structure of FtM transsexuals.

    Regional cerebral blood flow changes in female to male gender identity disorder. – Tanaka et al, Psychiatry Clin Neurosci. 2010 Apr 1;64(2):157-61.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20132527

    RESULTS: GID subjects had a significant decrease in rCBF in the left anterior cingulate cortex (ACC) and a significant increase in the right insula compared to control subjects.

    CONCLUSIONS: The ACC and insula are regions that have been noted as being related to human sexual behavior and consciousness. From these findings, useful insights into the biological basis of GID were suggested.

    Sexual Hormones and the Brain: An Essential Alliance for Sexual Identity and Sexual Orientation Garcia-Falgueras A, Swaab DF Endocr Dev. 2010;17:22-35

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19955753?dopt=Abstract

    The fetal brain develops during the intrauterine period in the male direction through a direct action of testosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hormone surge. In this way, our gender identity (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and sexual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. However, since sexual differentiation of the genitals takes place in the first two months of pregnancy and sexual differentiation of the brain starts in the second half of pregnancy, these two processes can be influenced independently, which may result in extreme cases in trans-sexuality. This also means that in the event of ambiguous sex at birth, the degree of masculinization of the genitals may not reflect the degree of masculinization of the brain. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender identity or sexual orientation.

    and also

    Boys and girls behave in different ways and one of the stereotypical behavioral differences between them, that has often been said to be forced upon them by upbringing and social environment, is their behavior in play. Boys prefer to play with cars and balls, whereas girls prefer dolls. This sex difference in toy preference is present very early in life (3–8 months of age) [1]. The idea that it is not society that forces these choices upon children but a sex difference in the early development of their brains and behavior is also supported by monkey behavioral studies. Alexander and Hines [2], who offered dolls, toy cars and balls to green Vervet monkeys found the female monkeys consistently chose the dolls and examined these ano-genitally, whereas the male monkeys were more interested in playing with the toy cars and with the ball….

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    You’re the one that wants to put women in with men.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    awww.

    /hands you a tissue

  • waltereg0

    TL;DR version: brains of MTF transwomen are different from brains in normal men and women, according to the opinions of the scientists you’ve presented, which implies that transwomen are neither completely male nor female, as far as their brains go. Which still supports not putting them in jail with female prisoners.

  • Jack

    So a soldier in Iraq is blown up by an IED and loses his genitalia. Now, by your definition, if gender is all about genitalia (it’s not; gender is in the brain and medically recognised as such) should this soldier be in the female or male prison? He doesn’t have a penis, but he also doesn’t have a vagina! Dilemma!!!

    Also, are we just assuming you’re okay with this scenario when it is a transgender female (MTF)? What if this was a transgender male (FTM)? Do you honestly think it would be okay for a man with increased strength through HRT with testosterone to be in a female prison? Would you be okay with that situation? Is that “safe” for the female inmates?

    Now, I’m not in any way suggesting that a FTM transgender individual would kick things off but you seem so set in thinking that a MTF transgender individual would go through INSANE processes to change their gender on their IDs based on the unlikely situation they can’t predict where they end up in jail so they could rape other women. Well if it’s okay to put them in a male prison, is it okay to put a man who lacks a penis in a female prison be it that penis-less soldier or a muscular FTM man?

    Can you see the lack of logic in your “argument” yet?

  • waltereg0

    I never said that, a transwoman is not a woman. A transwoman is a person with a male body and who suffers from GID, aka Gender Dysphoria, the psychotic delusion that their body is the ‘wrong’ body for them.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    People with feminized brains, female secondary sexual characteristics, and diminished musculature and bone density do *not* belong in prison with men.

    There have been *no* verifiable instances of transsexual women raping cis women.

    A trans woman is far more likely to be raped by a cis man than a cis woman is. The attacks of trans women by cis men are legion.

    To advocate putting trans women in with cis men is morally repugnant, and shows no regard for human life.

    You are a ridiculous person with dangerous ideas. Thankfully, the powers that be reevaluated their position, and properly housed Avery in women’s facilities.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    You keep repeating the word psychotic. There is no mental health organization in the western hemisphere that would agree with your ascientific assessment of trans women as psychotic.

    It’s patently ridiculous.

    Since you’ve kept repeating it even after knowing that the expert consensus of medical professionals and neuroanatomists is against you, you’ve now strayed into textbook bigotry.

    GD is not a psychosis, and not a delusion. Says the expert consensus of everyone qualified to comment on the subject.

  • Clay Allison

    It won’t matter much. They won’t let another prisoner anywhere near her.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    She’s a lesbian, and even she weren’t, you are one sick jerk if you assume that someone wants to be put in a dangerous situation where they are likely to be raped.

  • Arklytte

    *WOOSH* That would be the sound of you missing the point completely. See, Todd *does* have a point, though I happen to think that his way of making it is both horribly insulting and needlessly aggressive. However, your response (and by ‘your’, I mean both “you”, personally Princess, and “you”, the collective of transgender folks responding in this thread) consists of basically strawman arguments and ad hominem attacks, which dont make your point either. Basically it’s just devolved into a shouting match where each side tries to come up with the most creating/demeaning insult.

    My point is that at least one person in this thread actually came in with facts, cited news articles, and was perfectly reasonable in both tone and content, and he was totally and completely ignored in favor of screaming at Todd. So it seems to me that you (again, both the personal and collective ‘you’) dont seem interested in discussing the point, just in being the most insulting.

    Perhaps if people were more interested in civilized debate, more understanding would result.

    Now, I know that this post is more than a bit meta, but it’s also a point I felt needed to be made. You’re not going to win hearts and minds by just being the loudest screamer.

    With regard to the actual topic of this thread, well, I’ll admit that it’s a tough topic to consider without getting emotionally involved. However, if you look at the matter logically, then what it actually boils down to is: If you dont want to spend time in jail, dont do illegal things.

    AFA what to do with transgendered prisoners…well, until it becomes economically feasible to build a prison just for the transgendered, the only reasonable solution is for those with XX chromosomes to be in a female prison and for those with XY chromosomes to be in a male prison. Granted, they should probably be under closer supervision than the non-transgendered, for their own safety, but there has to be a simple, logical, one size fits all solution, or the system starts to break down.

    AFA what to do about Avery? Well, I’m personally of the opinion that the transit authority is WAAAAAY overreacting. This is a simple case of an expired visa, and I just cannot fathom why it has escalated to the level it has. If she has/had an expired visa, but is a citizen of another country then what they should have done is simply deny her entry and put her happy ass back on a plane to her home country. Simple, no muss, no fuss. She never even had to leave the airport. Of course, since the Canadian version of the TSA are obviously just as big a batch of fuckwits as their American counterparts, the only reasonable solution I can imagine is that Avery needs to be held in some sort of secure, solitary location until the British Embassy can be involved. Personally, I’ll be saying a prayer that she stays safe and unharmed until this mess can be sorted out, and I hope that the moron who decided that someone guilty of a non-violent, low-level crime be sent to prison because of a simple visa/passport issue gets his or her head handed to them by the higher ups. Of course, with the way most bureaucracies work, they’ll probably get a commendation. :P

  • dork

    she sure is getting some free publicity through all of this and I hope it works for her
    I cannot believe in this day and age she would be considered a man and put with male criminals

  • Bobisadrummer

    Yeah, you’re pathetic.

  • Rex

    Really ” never gonna see” it? They moved her to a women’s prison long before you made this post, and you knew it, too, because others brought it to your attention much earlier than this post. Still playing your agenda, even as recent as two days ago (as I write this)

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    Poor little man. I hurt your feels.

    /pats you on the head

  • Johnny B Good

    Great Press for an unknown…however unfortunate the situation.

  • Bobisadrummer

    Keep telling yourself that.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    LOL No need, when you keep telling me yourself.

    I love cis male tears.

  • rehanb_bl

    ok ok, so let me get this straight? (pun intedended a little) you base your “rational” decision making on what you see in porno?????

    we should ban pizza delivery guys too then! dirty bastards

  • Bobisadrummer

    See, you keep assuming I’m a male. Congratulations on being no better than those you disdain. That is why you’re full of bullshit. But you keep doing whatever it is that you need to do to help you sleep at night, cause you and I both know you’re not going to be at a reasonable hour in favor of trying to “progress” ideas that you’re hurting more than helping.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    Hey Bob, if you want to get in touch with your feminine side, don’t let me stop you.

  • Bobisadrummer

    Whatever Dan.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    Danah is the name my mother gave me, Bob.

  • Bobisadrummer

    Sure thing Dan.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    You’re confused Bob.

    My name was never Dan, and if it were, “Danielle” would be the feminine version.

    You’re not very good at this Bob. I hope you’re better at drumming.

  • Bobisadrummer

    Whatever you say Dan, just know that a shiny turd, or in your case, a sparkling one, is still a turd.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    Sweet, cis male tears.

  • Bobisadrummer

    Helping a lot of people getting their visas? How’s that foster huh? Oh wait… you’re too busy acting totally stupid on the internet. Good job!

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    My kid goes to this thing they call school.

    You could probably use some yourself.

  • Bobisadrummer

    And here you are, replying to every single thing I type.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    That’s a bit hypocritical, don’t you think?

  • Bobisadrummer

    I’m not the one on their high horse claiming to be superior. You’ve already made yourself look like a total loser, you just keep adding to it for some reason.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    I never claimed to be superior. I suppose that’s a relative thing.

  • Bobisadrummer

    It’s unbelievable how totally delusional you are. You’ve called me clueless, you called me stupid by implying I should go to school and you tried to lie about how you “help” people all while saying “cis male tears” over and over like it even means anything. This is how dumb you are. But it’s obvious you’ll keep posting until you have the last word because pretty clear you have absolutely nothing better to do with your pathetic, shitty, life.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    On the issue of gender identity, versus sexual orientation, you *are* clueless. See the definition of “clueless”, and also for reference, your initial comment.

    > you called me stupid by implying I should go to school

    I didn’t call you stupid, but considering you assumed I should be with my child in the middle of a weekday, I definitely questioned your knowledge of the concept of school.

    > you tried to lie about how you “help” people

    Yes, I totally lied about that, but I looked up u-visa just to make it plausible, lol. I also totally made up my job at the teen shelter despite it being right on my facebook profile for forever. LOL

  • Bobisadrummer

    Oh, you think I actually cared enough to go look for your facebook… Sorry. Maybe you do because you’re an attention whore and this is the only attention you’ve been getting. Whatever your issues are, good luck with terribly lacking life. Feel free to put in however much effort you want into your last reply but know that I won’t see it, because unlike you, I actually have a life. Farewell you silly little princess.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    Sweet, delicious, cis male tears.

  • Bobisadrummer

    You wouldn’t know a cis male if he came in balls deep bone dry and shit on your face.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    Well, now we all know what you spend your free time thinking about.

    Keep it classy. LOL

  • Bobisadrummer

    >we

    Please, you actually think anyone else gives two fucks about this shitty thread where you keep proving to be complete moron with your constant screeching like a little pig.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    And yet here you are, even after you said you were done.

    /hands you a jar.

    Could you cry into this please?

  • Bobisadrummer

    “/hands you a jar

    Could you cry into this please? I’m collecting them.”

    You’re running out of material already? What a joke.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    I could have sworn you said you had better things to do.

    LOL

    Just passing the jar around, cupcake.

  • gfd

    She’s legally female, they have no power to change her gender, like they have no power to change her social security number. She is female, her genitalia collided with a law that says she’s to be handled as a case-by-case case, meaning she could go in a female or male prison. Still that law does not make her legal gender male, she’s still legally female and should be spoken to and regarded as female in every way.

  • Bobisadrummer

    Check your privilege you cis female scum.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    LOL

    That was the second funniest thing you said so far.

    But you know the funniest part of this whole exchange is?

    That you’re intent on making your entire comment history about little old me.

  • Bobisadrummer

    No, the funniest part is that you think I take a disqus profile as serious as you do. I only made this account so I could get some clarification about whether a man who identifies as a woman, who is dating a woman, is gay or straight. It was an actual question. Because I don’t care if a ladyboy was put in male or female facility, because that doesn’t matter and shouldn’t be the focus of this persons imprisonment. But again, you couldn’t answer that question because you’re too focused on impressing strangers over the internet.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    Well, actually I can answer the question.

    A woman being attracted to another woman doesn’t make her a man, and a man being attracted to a man doesn’t make him a woman.

    Whether they are trans are not, this is true.

    Oh, and Avery isn’t a ladyboy. Ladyboy is a term used in Thailand for a particular cultural subset that has no corollary here. It’s also been appropriated by the sex industry. So either you’re appropriating Thai culture, or you’re objectifying and sexualizing trans women. Either way, that’s probably a bad idea.

    Trans women are women, who are trans.
    Just like white women are women who are white.
    And tall women are women who are tall.

    The appropriate way to refer to a trans woman is “a woman” or – when the distinction matters – “a trans woman”

  • Bobisadrummer

    You still didn’t answer the question. Is Avery gay, lesbian or bi?

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    All I know for certain, is that she’s in a same sex relationship. She could be a lesbian, or she could be bi.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    I did answer the question.

    It’s not really that hard.

    Trans women are women.

    So if a woman is in a relationship with a woman,what would you call that?

  • Gene D Goff

    LOL trust me I understand. But all these people mentioning what hormones do to the male anatomy…..the guy makkng the decisikn does not have the ability to know HOW she achieved the look she has, all he knows is theres a penis to be dealt with.andhe has to make his decision based on the fact that she could possibly use it.and its not just about protecting her from them, its also the other way around. They have no choice in that is what im saying. They have to take what measures they can to prevent sexual intercourse.and the breasts do not fogure into that. Unfortunately there is no good alternative at all, but it makes sense why they would put her in with the men.to these guys the passport means nothing. Until there is a trans only prison built, there will be problems with it.

  • MovieJay

    You are the gender that YOU identify with, not the gender that Todd identifies you with or that airport security identifies you with.

    Pretty simple, dingleberry.

  • Be Reasonable

    from a legal standpoint, Canadian authorities do not have to accept the status of female because her own government does, much like Canada does not have to accept things like medical licenses or other technical designations simply because a person’s home country has accepted that designation.

    Being that she has broken Canadian law and is being detained in Canada it only makes sense that she is detained according to Canadian detention rules, she was examined and apparently determined to be male according to whatever the Canadian guidelines happen to be.

    Being that I have very little idea about the particulars of her medical state it would be highly presumptuous of me to say whether or not the Canadian guidelines were correctly implemented or even if this case shows that they need to updated, I find it shocking that so many of you know of her current personal medical state to pass judgement on what is going on here.

  • Be Reasonable

    from a legal standpoint, Canadian authorities do not have to accept the status of female because her own government does, much like Canada does not have to accept things like medical licenses or other technical designations simply because a person’s home country has accepted that designation.

    Being that she has broken Canadian law and is being detained in Canada it only makes sense that she is detained according to Canadian detention rules, she was examined and apparently determined to be male according to whatever the Canadian guidelines happen to be.

    Being that I have very little idea about the particulars of her medical state it would be highly presumptuous of me to say whether or not the Canadian guidelines were correctly implemented or even if this case shows that they need to updated, I find it shocking that so many of you know of her current personal medical state to pass judgement on what is going on here.

  • Todd

    You can slap a set of antlers on a dog,but that still doesn’t make it a deer.

  • Todd

    You can slap a set of antlers on a dog,but that still doesn’t make it a deer.

    Or once a duck always a duck!

  • Todd

    its the trannys that are always rude to others

  • Todd

    It’s good to know if I am facing jailtime, I can put on some earrings and make-up and go to the chick’s slammer. I am not a man, baby, I am a “pre-op MTF”. No brainer here, “Caged Heat” vs “Oz”.

  • Todd

    LOL, problems with people that have strong opinions? Its ok mommy will protect you.

  • Be Reasonable

    However she was examined and determined to be legally male according to Canadian detention guidelines. Canadian authorities are not obligated to accept designations given by foreign nations… That is essentially what sovereignty is.

    If you believe Canadian guidelines were incorrectly implemented, or that they are in need of amendment that may be a valid argument, however the listing on a foreign passport does not technically need to be respected by Canadian authorities.

    purely legally speaking.

  • Be Reasonable

    Actually because her passport is not a Canadian passport the designation does not legally need to be recognized by Canadian authorities.

    Canada is a sovereign nation and as such Canada’s legal definition of gender is free to differ from that of other nations.

    As she was examined and determined to be legally male according to whatever the Canadian guidelines are this means that if detained in Canada she must legally be treated as male.

    You may disagree with the Canadian guidelines, or perhaps just the implementation in this case, but from a legal standpoint you are wholly incorrect

  • waltereg0

    No, not says expert consensus. Says you.
    Psychosis is a condition of being detached from reality. Believing that your body is not the “right” body, even though you are your body is a clear disassociation from reality and from the self. Believing one’s “true form” to be the opposite sex, is clear delusion, a delusion that cannot be achieved fully because sex can only partially be “reassigned”/changed. So even when society treats a transperson with GID as the gender they prefer, the transperson continues to be unhappy, continues to suffer the effects of gender dysphoria. Unlike a homosexual person who can live happily, and thereby their orientation can be said to be healthy, a person with the psychotic disorder of GID cannot be completely happy, no matter how society treats them. Their disorder is psychological, not societal.

  • waltereg0

    A transwoman’s brain is less “feminized” than it is “masculine” (or “masculinized”? I’m using your terminology). Secondary sexual characteristics are superficial. Their sex is male. Their body is male. I linked to an instance of a transwoman, Richard/Sherri Masbruch, assaulting female prisoners. They do not belong in prison with females.
    Avery Edison is a nonviolent minor offender where in her specific case it’s unlikely she’ll assault someone, but as a matter of policy this places female prisoners in jeopardy when male prisoners are jailed with them. Where the appropriate place is for them, in the case of those who are of diminished physical stature, is a tricky question. Probably lots of cis males of diminished musculature and stature would also like to be housed away from the rest of the prison general population.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    > I linked to an instance of a transwoman,

    You did no such thing. You linked to someone who self mutilated. You never substantiated their diagnoses of gender dysphoria.

    > A transwoman’s brain is less “feminized” than it is “masculine” (or “masculinized”

    [ citation needed ] I’ve never heard a neuroanatomist make this claim. It seems you’re just inventing it.

    > but as a matter of policy this places female prisoners in jeopardy when male prisoners are jailed with them.

    Nobody is arguing that anyone should place male prisoners with females other than you.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    > That’s an unsubstantiated claim, as is your claim of psychosis.

    Expert consensus in fact definitely states that GD is *not* a psychosis.

  • Shilo Parker

    Because due to the previous situation of Visa expiration or whatever, it brings up red flags when they check the passport, including everything in the past. If I went overseas, they can find out every needed detail about me, from speeding tickets, doctor appointments, tax returns, and name changes. In her case, everything prior to when she was originally identified as male.

  • Critifur

    You really are an idiot Todd. niave? Can you not even manage spell check? Yeah, your point of view is valuable. smh.

  • waltereg0

    I’m sorry to tell you this, but after looking at a pic of yourself you posted on your linked twitter page, (and unlike you I am not trying to make any personal insults or be “triggering” to you, I’m just trying to be the voice of reality here) I think you have an exaggerated perception of your features being feminine. I was considering not responding to this because you offered your own appearance as an example of why I’m wrong, so to put it as politely as I can, I personally just don’t see an unquestionably feminine face. If I was walking past and only noticed the long hair and makeup I’d assume at first glance that you’re a young woman, but cut the hair short, lose the makeup, and wear a loose fitting jumper (like you’d be issued if you were in prison), and you’d safely blend right in as male. “Smooth skin”? Plenty of men have smooth skin. Working out would take care of the muscle mass. I concede that potentially the breasts could be a problem when not wearing the jumper, separate shower schedules would be required. So if you’re citing yourself as an example, I disagree that a pre-op transwoman would be at a significantly higher risk for rape than any other male. Of course that is dependent on them ceasing to present themselves as female for their own safety. The fact that so many transwomen continue to present themselves as such in prison, despite the danger that it creates, that they choose the fantasy of being a woman over their own safety, supports my assertion that GD is a psychosis. What sane person would feel compelled to do that?

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    LOL, that twitter picture is several years old. A better question, is why would a sane person use the threat of violence as a justification for forcing someone to present themselves in a way that is fundamentally false to them?

    I’m not sure about psychotic, but certainly that sounds sociopathic, if nothing else.

    And again, just because you say something is psychosis does not make it so, particularly when the entire mental health field absolutely disagrees with you. You know what’s delusional? Pretending your opinion trumps that of expert consensus.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    Wait a minute, what twitter picture are you referring to?

    I haven’t even used a twitter account in forever.

  • waltereg0

    My error, your disquss profile. It has “followers” so its layout looks like twitter. It links to a thread about fox news where you posted this-
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t31/966165_236059709907410_152071257_o.jpg

    I’m glad you aren’t insulted or triggered, so I can go into specifics. To me, the jawline and the 5 o’clock shadow are the giveaways, on close inspection. If you grew a beard, then obviously no one is going to think you have a feminine face.
    How your body naturally is, cannot be said to be “fundamentally false”. Your body is you.
    Sociopathic would mean unable to empathize. I am actually trying to be empathetic towards people with a disorder while ALSO empathizing with ciswomen in prison with a heterosexual transwoman and how they would feel about that. You are not attempting to do the latter and consider their rights.

  • Todd

    I am using German Windows on my laptop and English is my second language….Maybe your little pea brain can understand the world does not revolve around English. I am using a qwertz computer my guess is you don´t even know any other language or what that even means and can only insult. That is right. pea brain idiot.

  • http://danahsparkle.tumblr.com/ danah sparkle

    First, I don’t have five o’ clock shadow. I’m not sure what you’re looking at. It *is* possible that some combination of makeup and my crappy lighting condition is making it look like that, but I am physically incapable of growing facial hair.

    As far as my jawline, *shug* – my friend Tristana has a more angular jaw than I do and she’s not trans. And then there’s Ann Coulter.

    What you’re doing actually, is playing a mental trick on yourself. You know that I am trans, so now you’re looking for features that say I am trans. You’ll find them – in fact, if I were to give you several pictures of women and say “point out the trans ones” you’d do so, even if none were trans,

    I like how you’re attempting to speak for women, by the way. That’s cute. I’ve never actually had a woman make the argument you’re making, but whatever. You can pretend whatever you like. Just like you can pretend GD is a psychosis, or pretend you give a damn about rape.

  • Critifur

    Your an idiot because you refuse to understand that no matter that this
    woman has a penis, she is a woman, and recognized as such by the
    government. Hence the sex indicated on her passport. She should not be
    put in a criminal male population. She is not a criminal (even if she was a criminal), and she should not be placed in such danger. Simplified and correct. If you want
    to be obtuse and bigoted, that is your choice, it just reflects poorly
    on your intellect.

  • Todd

    lol, go to a non biased tranny site and read the hundreds of posters who agree with me, Your opinion means nothing to me because well your an idiot for one and secondly really who are you other then someone who oppresses others opinions. The worst kind of Nazi.

  • Todd

    you are pathetic

  • Critifur

    Oh yes! More please Sir. May I have another?
    LOLOLOLOL

  • Brooklin10

    Ignorance continues…too many idiots in charge.

  • Billy Slusser

    I’m not transgender. I’m not gay. I’m straight and fed up with the opposite sex not finding me attractive, so leave these folks alone. In other words : STAY OUT OF PEOPLES’ BODIES. You don’t belong there especially when they say in a language you can understand : STAY OUT OF THE INSIDE OF MY Body.

  • cholafide

    The police officers didn’t do anything wrong here. They have never dealt with a situation like this before. No matter what they would have done initially, there would have been someone somewhere complaining about the violation of human rights blahblahblah. They reacted in the simplest way possible….penis=male therefore male prison. The officers initialy saw her pre-op penis and thought “threat to other female inmates!” However, they still heard her objections and put her in a solitary holding cell. She was not in general pop!!! She was never going to be put into any physical danger.
    The situation has now been rectified and I am sure that there will be a new and improved list of protocol!

  • nonlinearmind

    There’s an obvious catch-22 that is an obvious and logical concern. Is it possible a male-identifying-as-female could be housed with women and attack a woman with male strength? Yes. Is it possible a female-identifying-as-male could be housed with men and end up beaten or raped because of their gender identity? Yes. Is it possible that either scenario could result in no harm? Yes.

    Given that each of these is a possibility, law enforcement is going to go with whichever minimizes potential liability.

  • manofredearth

    You’re a disingenuous troll, as if rape was about STDs and pregnancy. GTFO. (And you listed “tongue” in your admissal but don’t know that it can spread disease? Jeez.)

  • Todd

    she is gone. You can stop crying, Maybe read more and post less. Prison is not a nice place. Do a little research about it before you type. You will look less ignorant. ssstttuuuupppiiiidddd.

  • manofredearth

    Troll away, you couldn’t even make a valid point.

  • FACLC

    Besides the obvious fact that Avery is a man, and therefore looks like one even when wearing drag, on further…*ahem*…examination, a penis was discovered.

    If that’s not game/set/match than nothing is.

  • FACLC

    None of his “misfortunes” on this trip were from factors present at his birth.

  • FACLC

    I totally agree that the words are interchangeable. But even if you grant the pro-tranny side their delusions, this case *still* means that Avery winds up in the clink with other men.

  • sophie

    Hey look! a paranoid essentialist post-op bigot that thinks she is better than other people who does not or can’t afford a personal and private surgery which is really no-ones business. If you think getting a vagina makes you a woman you are a fool. If you think pre-op trans people should be discrimnated against for being pre-op which you admitted to really just makes you a bigoted prejudiced hater.

  • sol_chrom

    Why are you so worked up about the idea of her going to jail, anyway? What did she do wrong that she deserves to be in jail in the first place? Instead of focusing on the ignorance of our border agencies, you’re chortling at the fact that she’s a transgender woman and she’s being detained for no good reason. Real funny stuff.

    Do you jerk off to revenge porn? Do you get off seeing marginalized people suffer? Are you one of those privileged entitled jerks who wishes the rest of the world would just shut up and leave you and your insular privilege alone? Or are you just a smug, ignorant asshole who goes through ever-more-complicated logical contortions in order to justify being a smug, ignorant asshole? You’re not even imaginative enough to be a troll.

  • Mark

    A little slow are we to get to the finish line? hahahahahahahaha

  • Yomo

    “HIS WAY THROUGH”, SICK DEMENTED DELUSION ENABLERS.

  • Yomo

    You really are that demented aren’t you?

    THE ENTIRE CONCEPT ITSELF IS FAKE, THE DEFINITION OF.

    WAKE UP FROM YOUR ANGRY DELUSIONS.

  • Yomo

    THE ENTIRE CONCEPT ITSELF IS FAKE, THE DEFINITION OF.

    Wake up from your enslavement to delusion.

  • Rebecca Herring

    I prefer to rely on the innumerous scientific, medical, and psychological studies that prove the existence of transgender. All you have is caps lock and psuedo-Yoda grammar.

  • Jane

    There’s a logical flaw in your thinking. You have come to false conclusions (read my comment again) and have resorted to name calling/personal attacks. Deciding to use hormones (which are not consistent) as the basis of gender is a SUBJECTIVE CHOICE. Deciding to use chromosomes (which are consistent) as basis of gender is another subjective choice. Arguments can be made on both sides, taking one over the other does not equate to being a “hater.” Even passing legislation to use one approach over the other does not make it objectively “correct,” a choice simply needs to be made for practical purposes.

    Referencing a creationist, then stating I’m smoked, seems bizarre (I believe in evolution, btw).

    There are pragmatic reasons for housing prisoners according to genitalia. These reasons may not be salient for long term incarceration. Someone caught trying to illegally enter the country, possessing a foreign-issued passport as ID — containing information conflicting with genitalia, is in no position to complain about prison housing based on genitalia. Passport fraud happens. No mistreatment, especially given the efforts made and time it takes to verify (a criminal’s) claims and ascertain the best housing. Don’t forget edison was knowing acting illegally, at taxpayer’s expense.

    The biggest problem here is that edison KNEW what she was doing was illegal, knew potential outcomes of the personal choice (e.g. jail and deportation), but did it anyway, costing Canadians money that could be spent helping people who desperately need it. I stand by the douche comment. Until every penny associated with edison’s illegal activity is repaid (no doubt the incident is being milked for professional purposes, i.e., material for edison’s act, to earn money…), then a punitive number of years have passed, reentry to Canada should be banned.

  • nimblejack

    {YAWN}

  • nimblejack
  • John Schurig

    Yeah, I would expect an ignorant reply like that.

 

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