It all started simply enough: a new restaurant in the south end of Ottawa, Taylor’s Wine and Food Bar, was welcoming a patron who was investigating the restaurant in advance of a birthday dinner for her sister. Then, Trieste Rathwell mentioned that the table of five would need a sixth seat for her three-month-old nephew in his car seat. That’s when Sylvia Taylor, co-owner of the restaurant, told her that small children were not welcome in the restaurant, prompting a brouhaha that has spilled out into Ottawa’s newspapers and radio waves.
On one side, you’ve got parents of young children who don’t want to be excluded from public places—and they’re willing to do things like file complaints with the Ontario Human Rights Tribunal, as Rathwell’s sister has. On the other side—represented here by radio host and Ottawa’s crankiest old man Lowell Green—you’ve got people without children who think that the restaurant has a right to maintain its own atmosphere, including controlling the age of people in a liquor-serving establishment.
The anti-kid forces seem to have focused specifically on the unwillingness of parents to hire babysitters for nights out, which may be fair in some cases but seems a bit much for new parents of a three-month-old. That said, by the time a kid is six and screaming about not wanting his peas to touch his chicken, they might have a point.
Of course, this debate could never happen here in Toronto. Oh, wait.
• Foodies chew over Ottawa restaurant’s baby ban [National Post]
• Baby causes birthday brouhaha [Ottawa Citizen]
• Many adults like child-unfriendly restaurant policy [National Post]
• Baby Wars [Toronto Life]
I admire this restaurant owner. Despite the fact that parents think their children are awesome, people trying to enjoy a nice dinner shouldn’t have to be subjected to someone else’s crying baby.
July 9, 2010 at 3:02 pm | by AllyGreat! I’ve stopped going out to nice restaurants for special occasions because who wants to spend a large amount of money on a really nice meal only to have it spoiled by a screaming child that parents don’t want to control; I’d rather cook a really nice meal at home. I think if more restaurants did this they would probably see their business increase.
July 9, 2010 at 4:07 pm | by JuliaWhat’s next? “I demand to bring my lap dog in”? Take your kids to Boston Pizza or East Side Marios if you’re too cheap to get a babysitter.
July 9, 2010 at 5:15 pm | by mattagascarGood for them. I don’t care about kids in noisy bars or cheap restaurants but nice places where you may be on a date, doing business and/or spending a decent chunk of change are absolutely no place for kids. As Matt points out, there are many “family friendly” restaurants around if you must dine out with your sprog.
July 9, 2010 at 7:19 pm | by snowyWow – I am pretty surprised by these comments so far. When my children were young I rarely did eat at nice restaurants with my kids and would leave if their behaviour began to disturb other patrons. I never took them to weddings and have always been considerate of others when planning outings with my children. However, I do not expect everyone to do the same. If they like to bring their children and they scream the whole time, it doesn`t bother me at all. I love to see kids anywhere, and parents who like to bring them to a fancy dinner or who cannot afford babysitters are welcome to bring their kids as far as I am concerned. Anywhere I see a child it brightens my day. If I was in a fancy restaurant and saw a child crying I would make a funny face at them to cheer them up, c`mon people – lighten up!
July 9, 2010 at 7:26 pm | by AlTo the person above ^, you may be perfectly comfortable with a screaming child next to you while you eat, but most people are not. Parents love their kids, but every once in a while they want to get away and have a grown up time. Is it fair for this to be ruined by some selfish parents? As for parents who go to fancy meals but cannot afford a babysitter, maybe you should be eating somewhere less expensive if you cannot afford another 20-30 bucks.
It is completely fair for restaurants to decide whom their clientele is, because if one patron is disturbed by a child, the restaurant has to deal with it, putting them in a more awkward situation.
July 9, 2010 at 11:06 pm | by NealI can’t believe how self-centred these women are being! The Taylors have just opened this restaurant and they have a vision of it being an adult-oriented place. To establish that, of course they have to be firm in the beginning. It makes perfect sense to me.
July 10, 2010 at 1:13 am | by MerriganThe Rathwell-Gards have two options that would make everyone much happier than going through the human rights tribunal:
1) The events that include Jackson should be at more family oriented restaurants (ex: Swiss Chalet, East Side Mario’s, almost any Chinese restaurant, there are many to choose from!).
2)If they really want to go to a place more upscale, than Ruth Gard and her husband should be willing to pay for a babysitter.
There are many couples with children who save up to go to places such as Taylors for their rare romantic nights out without the kids. People such as these three sisters are being very inconsiderate to such couples. They should let this go and let John and Sylvia Taylor create the atomosphere that they wish to have in this restaurant. It isn’t the only place in Ottawa to eat out!
Neal, no one is comfortable with a screaming child. Any fit parent does not allow a child to go on screaming through out a meal.
Also, anti-kid people, is having your nice meal spoiled by a child really such an epidemic? I can’t say I’ve ever had a lovely evening spoiled by a screaming child. I think you’re just blowing shit out of proportion. It is, in fact, people like you who complain so much about children that are the terrible, neglectful, “my kid is screaming in a restaurant but I don’t care as I am here to enjoy my evening” parents, in the end.
July 10, 2010 at 1:42 pm | by SarahOkay, so as a mother of two and a former waitres, chef and patron of many restaurants from dive to upscale I have to wade in and say it depends on the attitude of the parents. You know your child’s schedule and temperament best — three month old babies eat sleep and poop and most likely wouldn’t disturb anyone’s dinner–as for toddlers and up sitting with adults for a drawn out fine dining experience sans colouring books and crayons can be trying for a child and other patrons…
From the postby Neal above:”It is completely fair for restaurants to decide whom their clientele is, because if one patron is disturbed by a child, the restaurant has to deal with it, putting them in a more awkward situation.”
That being said if it’s all about atmosphere insert blowhard with a loud mouth and a gold card or senior citizen who can’t hear becase of the loud music where the word child appears and then what happens to your atmosphere?
According to the angry posters families have to choose whether they dine together at a crappy chain vs. leaving the kids at home? There has to be a middle ground. Just for the record, children should not be equated with lap dogs in this debate.
As a side note my children have dined in some of the best restaurants in the city–they use the right cutlery,say please and thank you and encourage generous tipping–which is more that can be said for many adults:)…
July 10, 2010 at 2:01 pm | by AnneI worked at a (very expensive) country club in Connecticut for a while where the families would bring their kids to the dining room quite regularly. They were very well trained/behaved, in their little ties and with their small orders of lobster or dover sole, but extremely quiet and invariably miserable looking stuck there surrounded by hedge fund managers and their equally rivetted families. The same kids were animated and joyful when allowed have hotdogs out at the club’s pool for dinner instead.
When I remember this and look at the other children in my life I think rules like this one in Ottawa are doing the kids a favour. There is no way you could convince me that any children – and, in advance, spare me about how uniquely mature and fascinated with dad’s conversation your special snowflake is! – are comfortable or remotely interested in nicer restaurants versus the Boston Pizza type experience. It’s just a waste of money, a likely irritation for other diners and an inadmission that your lifestyle, as our folks’ in the 70s or whenever did, has to change somewhat when you’re a parent.
July 10, 2010 at 4:50 pm | by INBits a business , they can do whatever they want , if you dont like their policies then dont go , whats the big deal , people are stupid ,
and for the record most parents today cannot keep their kids under control !
SO I Say go to swiss chalet and leave us alone!
July 11, 2010 at 10:47 pm | by michaelWow, Michael sounds like a whiny little baby who needs some attention. Why don’t you go sit in a corner while the adults discuss this?
July 12, 2010 at 9:11 am | by mattagascarMy favourite part of living in Toronto’s gay village? You can go for brunch without screaming children running circles around your table and walk down the street without fear of being run over by a SUV-stroller.
Everyone just has really cute dogs!
July 12, 2010 at 1:33 pm | by gaybourhoodIt’s their business, they have every right to run it the way they want.
That being said, I’ve just recently moved back to Toronto from Europe after 6 years and can share that children eat everywhere. For whatever reason, the gastronomes here have transformed dinner into a silent, tense ritual. You would think they were serving the Eucharist at every sitting. Families go out with more frequency and spontaneity when they don’t have to worry about leaving the kids somewhere. That means more business for resto’s.
As for the rude ones that let their offspring wail to the detriment of other diners, well, you don’t need to be younger than 6 to be annoying. Can we kick those people out to?
Otherwise, I say we force parents to lock their kids in the car until they’re done dinner. That’ll teach them how to act in polite society.
July 12, 2010 at 2:05 pm | by bisca#1 – 6 is not a baby – at what age will children be permitted? The posters here must be the most ill-travelled people in the world. Have you been to Europe? Have you seen families eating without their children? Maybe not at Tour de l’Argent in Paris, but definitely most anywhere else…
#2 Anne… You read my mind. I wouldn’t take my 18 month old to Scaramouche, but I would take her to a local bistro… She couldn’t be any worse than dumbo at the next table, yakking on his cell phone, or butt head two tables over who snaps his fingers to get the waitress’ attention.
And #3 – while we’re banning people, can we ban people who order tap water or tea/coffee with their dinner? If you don’t want to drink alcohol, at least get bottled water with a twist? And what about the blue haired set who chose to split a salad with their tea at a busy French bistro, 8 p.m. on a Friday night? Should we ban them too, for taking up a precious table when actual foodies want to eat? Have I offended you? Well, as a parent who doesn’t want to be relegated to Red Lobster and McDonalds… this whole discussion offends me.
July 12, 2010 at 2:30 pm | by Nikki