Lit 200 October 29, 2007 at 4:57 p.m.

Doug Bell, if you think James Adams is gratuitously sarcastic about Conrad Black, wait until you get a load of what most of the regular contributors to your blog have to say, especially the four Black haters,

W101, Barbara in BC, Fintan and Roger (there was another, Donna, but she is posting under aliases these days)

have to say. These four, and a few others, fill your blog day after day with poisonous diatribes about Black who, most of us can readily agree, is not a particularly nice fellow all the time.

They are mostly ultra left wing radicals so it's not difficult to see why they dislike him—he's a neocon, he's aloof, he's wealthy (or was), and he's married to another right winger (They hate Barbara just as much, or almost as much, as Black).

But their loathing goes much deeper. They ache for Black to be homosexually raped in prison. They relish very indignity and discomfort he is about to suffer - over and over again without pause. Most of them hope St Eve puts him away forever.

According to them, he's not only venal and greedy (charges with which no one could disagree) he's stupid, he's made nothing but blunders as a businessman, he's responsible for the mindset that allowed Bush to launch the war in Iraq (despite the fact that EVERYbody was against that invasion when Bush was building the non-consensus for it).

They are particularly upset that he's allowed to go on television and write columns for the National Post. One, Roger, believes the government should have stepped in and stopped that foolishness forthwith. The Mercer show and the columns, of course, were and are unmitigated disasters.

It's amusing to read them the first few times but after that, it's sheer repetition.

Todd October 29, 2007 at 5:23 p.m.

Lit 200 goes too far. Barbara in BC, Fintan, Roger and then in a singular breath to include Donna! Where does she get off! Shunned should she be, like a pestilential disease, I would say. Donna being separate and the first love of my life, so taken was I by her posts, all the others just a council of dispair; not like my lady love.

Donna honey, please post.

Barbara in BC October 29, 2007 at 5:43 p.m.

Lit200 went complaining to Bell about us meanies:

Don't forget that while Douglas Bell is critical of those who are too hard on BLack, he DOES provide us with this forum for discussion about the criminal trial of same.

Barbara in BC October 29, 2007 at 5:43 p.m.

Lit200 said:

"They hate Barbara just as much, or almost as much, as Black"

In my case, it's Barbara Amiel who is most hated. I'm a rebel!

Marilyn October 29, 2007 at 6:21 p.m.

Conrad Black was shocked by the verdict -- he thought he was going to be acquitted on ALL charges. You can read the story at ctv.ca. Here's the link: http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/st...

W101 October 29, 2007 at 6:47 p.m.

As we move into November, Black's nerves are understandly Freyd. The clock is ticking, he's worried he'll have to spend the rest of his life in jail.
He should be a Freyd, very aFreyd! The chances of being Freyd on appeal are zero. Oh well, that's what happens when you are convicted of Freyd in America.

Barbara in BC October 29, 2007 at 6:50 p.m.

Thanks Marilyn for the link. It would seem that Black has been living in a state of denial. A criminal who thinks he's not a criminal. As if even to admit it to himself would be dangerous.

Barbara in BC October 29, 2007 at 7:46 p.m.

Doug Bell said about the Nixon bio:

"It must come as a stunning revelation to the industry that books concerning reviled historical figures are a disincentive to sales and marketing."

Black's urge to whitewash Nixon's reputation must have been pretty intense. As W101 said in her witty and succinct book review...

"We are not a crook"

susan October 29, 2007 at 7:50 p.m.

Wow, we got an informer on the blog reporting to Bell. In the CTV interview the biographer claims that the felon has phenomenal memory. How come he can't remember any of his felonies?

oreck October 29, 2007 at 7:58 p.m.

Of course his books are not selling. Why would they? The subjects of the bio as despised politicos. There is nothing new in them. The bios are opinions of a british felon.

wave99 October 29, 2007 at 8:19 p.m.

Again, to the folks that truly think Black is dilusional...think again. Look at him. He's not dilusional. He just really thought that he did not break a law.

He,like so many accountants and legal types, felt he took it to the limit, but did not cross that line.

When you JUST look at the facts. It remains very possible not a law was broken.

DH October 29, 2007 at 8:19 p.m.

Lit200 writes: 'It's amusing to read them the first few times but after that, it's sheer repetition.'

Of course, everything Lit writes is fresh and witty all the time. He/she never kicks over the same old turf. Not!

I pose a question. If Black is as bright, witty, intelligent, blah, blah, blah as reported, why does he have such a mundane education? Didn't he drop out of U of T? Where did he get his law degree....Sherbrooke? Why would such a sharp mind not have a distinguished post-secondary education? Was he lazy, bored, or maybe just an average student? Not that having a top degree from a top school indicates a bright, hardworking mind. One only has to look at George Bush with his MBA from Yale to see that. It is interesting, though, that Black never completed his education in Toronto.

DH October 29, 2007 at 8:48 p.m.

From Wikipedia: Black eventually graduated from a small, now defunct private school in Toronto called Thornton Hall, continuing on to post-secondary education at Carleton University (History, 1965). For a time, he attended Toronto's Osgoode Hall Law School of York University; however, he dropped out during his first year of study. He eventually completed his law degree at Université Laval (Law, 1970), later completing a Master of Arts degree in history at McGill University in 1973.[4]

Doesn't appear to be the mind of a genius at work here. Maybe he was just an ambitious young man who wanted to get to the top in business as quickly as possible and with the minimum amount of time, effort and money.

Lit 200 October 29, 2007 at 8:58 p.m.

Just to refresh everyone's memory, the non-competes were not Black's idea, they were the suggestion of Torys LLP the legal firm negotiating the canwest sale, and the accounting firm KPMG.

"Toronto law firm Torys LLP and consulting firm KPMG were the ones who suggested the structure of providing bonuses for high achieving Hollinger through the medium of tax-free non-compete payments. Ron Safer, lawyer for Mark Kipnis, said to Darren Sukonick, referring to memos the Torys lawyer wrote during the sale of various newspapers to Hollinger. "There's nothing unlawful or improper from keeping those payments from CanWest"

Sukonick, a lawyer and partner at Torys LLP's Toronto office, admitted during his cross-examination that he was the one who suggested to his client, Hollinger International, that it make the controversial non-compete payments. The move had been meant as a way for company executives to avoid taxes on their corporate bonues.

"Is it fair to say you didn't think there was anything wrong with [paying non-compete fees to Hollinger's executives]?" defence lawyer Michael Schachter asked Sukonick in the videotaped deposition played in court.

"No, I did not think there was anything wrong with that," Sukonick replied.

Silvester October 29, 2007 at 9:14 p.m.

Yo felon not dilutional? He is in another universe.
Yo felon didn't think he broke the law?
Y'all with all that learning he was not taught that
stealing is a crime.
The law firm is to be blame?
Yo felon always blames someone else, but
yo felon keep the loot.

Lit 200 October 29, 2007 at 9:17 p.m.

DH: are you kidding? Your leader Roger also went to McGill. He did not graduate summa anything because he spent most of his time playing bridge in the cafeteria and failed or dropped out of his classes. Black graduated MA with distinction.

However, your leader did attend other centres of learning on eight or nine continents. He graduated summa cum nothing from the university of xingchong zooie in China, summa cum psychobabble from the secondary school of Islamic studies in Yamchuxkii and a few others. He also got his economic degree from a box of grape nut flakes and was heard to exclaim EUREKA (all in caps) when he found a rolled up degree in law wrapped in a Joe Palooka cartoon in a box of Cracker Jack's.

Lit 200 October 29, 2007 at 9:22 p.m.

Hey Silvester, when you get a Christmas bonus from the telemarketing outfit you work for, do you call that stealing from the folks??

Brigitte October 29, 2007 at 9:26 p.m.

Paying approx. $2M non-compete to not to compete with himself is not stealing?

Lit 200 October 29, 2007 at 9:27 p.m.

DH... be honest. Put Black and Roger in a do or die battle of intellectual ability. Be honest. Who the heck do you think would win that one? Black with four books to his name or Roger, with his rolled up degree? Give me a break.

Give Roger Fintan and Worm 101 to help with the answers and the contest would be over in about three minutes.

Krysta October 29, 2007 at 9:35 p.m.

The felon's intellectual ability is such that he inherited millions from his parents and he maanaged to lose it all and become a convicted felon.

Barbara in BC October 29, 2007 at 10:06 p.m.

OK Lit200, Black is smart. No question he has an academic bent. He just went into the wrong line of work and ended up a convicted criminal. Maybe he could have gone with his strengths and got a job as a History Professor. This would have been safe and perfect for him.

ROGER October 29, 2007 at 10:07 p.m.

THE LEGAL SYSTEM BLACK PRAISED AS BEING THE EPITOME OF PERFECTION:

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/teen_...

>After he was imprisoned, Wilson became the subject of prominent editorials and national news broadcasts. His sentence was denounced even by members of the jury that convicted him and the author of the 1995 law that put him in prison.

Supporters, including former U.S. president Jimmy Carter, said the case raised troubling questions about race and the justice system. <

Amiel and Black were willing to let this young man rot in jail while they praised American justice. Well, now the fat lord is off to the clink for a lock up with folks who are eager to listen to him expound on Napoleon and Josephine and why the neocon way is the only way to salvation for economies. Queen Connie, first bride of American penal institutions!

Lit/Leaf/Wave99-- are you a close relative of Black?

ROGER October 29, 2007 at 10:15 p.m.

AFTER NOV 30, BLACK WILL DISAPPEAR FROM PUBLIC LIFE

On Nov 30, the fat lady will sing, the ax will fall. Black's public life will come to an end. History will have a footnote about a petty thief, not even a big time crook, lacking in enterprise in everything he did, one of the biggest failures of children who inherit the big and lose it all through stupidity. However, Black and Amiel will mostly be remembered as pathetic clowns who were the laughing stock of both high society, politicians and the working people. Black and Amiel united disparate people in their derision and contempt and ridicule and laughter at the petty bourgeois social climber antics of Amiel and Black. Don't they look silly now in those pictures as Antoinette and Richelieu? They look like ghouls raised from the dead to terrify people. Were they attending a halloween party? Where Black is going, it is halloween all the time! Very scary and no one needs some silly outfit to look mean.

DH October 29, 2007 at 10:20 p.m.

Lit200

When did I ever say Roger was my leader? In fact, when have I ever commented on Roger period. I have no opinion on Roger. This is not the Roger blog so why would I comment on Roger. My point is that there is dubious evidence pointing to Black's superior intellect. His educational background doesn't indicate it even though he has a masters degree in History - big deal.

I have much more admiration for the founders of RIM. These are corporate leaders I would hold up against Conrad Black.

Jim Balsillie, 46, entered into the position of co-CEO and chairman of Waterloo-based Research in Motion in 1992, less than a decade before the small pager company created the device which would launch the company's profits and profile into the stratosphere.

Mr. Balsillie, a native of Peterborough, Ont., earned a his undergraduate degree in commerce from the University of Toronto and an MBA from Harvard University. He holds a chartered accountant designation and has worked at Prudential Bache Securities, Ernst & Young, and Sutherland Schultz Inc. He also holds an honorary Doctor of Laws degree from Wilfrid Laurier University and is a fellow of the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Ontario. And fellow co-founder, Mike Lazaridis.

Mike Lazaridis in 1979, he enrolled at the University of Waterloo in electrical engineering with an option in computer science. He dropped out in 1984, just two months before he was scheduled to graduate, having been offered a lucrative contract from General Motors for the nascent RIM. With a $15,000 loan from his parents, a small government grant and a contract from General Motors, he, Mike Barnstijn and Douglas Fregin launched RIM, which would become one of Canada's largest and most successful high-tech companies.

These are two men who started with nothing and built it into a multi-billion dollar empire. I would hold these two men up against Conrad Black as a corporate success any day of the week.

ROGER October 29, 2007 at 10:27 p.m.

BLACK OUGHT TO HAVE GOT A JOB AS A PRIMARY SCHOOL TEACHER

He would have had a captive audience and could have forced them all to read his books.

FDR sold 50,000 books? Wow! I thought it would have sold a lot more than that. How many did Amiel and Black buy? 45,000 copies? Didn't Black send a copy to everyone on his Christmas list as a special present?

It's a good thing Black and Amiel did not have to live off his earnings as a writer. How many pairs of shoes would royalties on 50,000 books pay for? And monthly mortgage payments? And trips to Bora Bora? Black complained they felt like "geriatric freaks" in Bora Bora. And after all that expense! Black believed in the movies about Bora Bora, movies from the 1950s! I guess Black thought that history stood still in Bora Bora and it would be exactly like in the 1950s movies out of Hollywood, where aging actors and actresses frolicked in make-belief world of the aged defying the clock and having eternal youth. You have to feel sorry for Black's naivete in this regard. No doubt Black is wont to say that "youth is wasted on the young." If Black and Amiel could buy someone's youth, they would no doubt think it their right to deprive someone else of what they want. That's just the way they are, like Daisy and her kind in F. Scott Fitzgerald's "Great Gatsby." The Gilded Age is over.

DH October 29, 2007 at 10:35 p.m.

Lit said: 'DH... be honest. Put Black and Roger in a do or die battle of intellectual ability. Be honest. Who the heck do you think would win that one? Black with four books to his name or Roger, with his rolled up degree? Give me a break.'

I believe Madonna has written a number of books too. Check them out (http://www.absolutemadonna.com/books/). Writing books doesn't ensure a brilliant mind has written them. Then again, maybe Madonna is brilliant. She certainly has been far more successful in business than Conrad.

ROGER October 29, 2007 at 10:37 p.m.

COMPARISONS WITH BLACK?

Compare Black to Rupert Murdoch or Canada's own Ken Thompson, Lord of Fleet. In either comparison, Black is an abject failure. Thompson transformed the firm he inherited into a powerhouse and dramatically increased his company's wealth and his own wealth so that at the time of his death, he was in the top 10 wealthiest people in the world, as is his son and heir now.

But even compare Black to Radler. Black is facing the rest of his life in jail and financial ruin. Radler will be out in around 2 years and has a growing empire already underway!
In his entire business career, Black has not a single success he can point to that was both legal and his singular achievement! The best deals of his career were either completely crooked (stealing from poor widows) or the achievements other architects planned and put in place for him to merely execute to their plan (gaining control of The Telegraph--the architect of that deal was Black's colleague from Bilderberg, the then editor of the Economist).
Everything Black did on his own failed miserably--to wit, his personal management of Massey Ferguson.

ROGER October 29, 2007 at 10:41 p.m.

ALMOST EVERYONE IS MORE SUCCESSFUL THAN BLACK.

A homeless bum sleeping on the sidewalk of a cold night in Toronto is freer than Black is ever going to be again.

Not for all the money in the world would I wish to face what Black faces. I am a free person, at least as free as it is possible to be in life. Black has never been free. He has been imprisoned his whole life, in his burning desire to acquire and dominate and lord it over others. Ambition which destroys one is a prison from which Black was unable to escape on his own. What ambition can one have as an inmate?

not a lawyer or law student October 29, 2007 at 10:46 p.m.

ROGER October 29, 2007 at 9:15 p.m.

AFTER NOV 30, BLACK WILL DISAPPEAR FROM PUBLIC LIFE

On Nov 30, the fat lady will sing, the ax will fall. Black's public life will come to an end. History will have a footnote about a petty thief, not even a big time crook, lacking in enterprise in everything he did, one of the biggest failures of children who inherit the big and lose it all through stupidity. However, Black and Amiel will mostly be remembered as pathetic clowns who were the laughing stock of both high society, politicians and the working people. Black and Amiel united disparate people in their derision and contempt and ridicule and laughter at the petty bourgeois social climber antics of Amiel and Black. Don't they look silly now in those pictures as Antoinette and Richelieu? They look like ghouls raised from the dead to terrify people. Were they attending a halloween party? Where Black is going, it is halloween all the time! Very scary and no one needs some silly outfit to look mean.

Excellent analysis. Hang tough, Roger.

ROGER October 29, 2007 at 10:52 p.m.

63 years old. When he gets out, if he gets out, he will be well into his 70s and Amiel will be pushing 80 something.

You have to feel sorry for Black. He will miss the weddings, the births of grandchildren, birthdays, anniversaries, funerals.

Black will have lost face with his own family and inner circle, because there is no way he can maintain any illusion about his predicament. His poor family have to bear the burden of his name and infamy along with him, all down the generations. That is hard on a family, individually and collectively.

Imagine the whole family gathering for Christmas, for New Year, and there is the empty seat. And miles away, Black sits amongst his prisoner "family", his thoughts miles away, in reverie about a distant, happier past.

The family photos will have a missing face. His shadow will loom large. Like a family beset by a member with alzheimers, it is a kind of living death, which calls for grieving and mourning, but how can that happen during life and during so much anger, rage and inner turmoil?

wave99 October 29, 2007 at 10:54 p.m.

Lit.

You are good !

I'm rolling in laughter. Truly.

You are a gentleman and it is not your easy tendancy to really rip into the anti's with intense sarcasm. So,I can tell you frequently hold back.

This segment brought it out and when one see's your ability to rip another to intellectual shreds, it is absolutely no contest who comes out on top.

But, I must confess, it is making me very lazy. You are handling them all without the need for any helpand it has been fun to sit back,enjoy my tea,and take it all in.

Cheers.
LOL.

Lit 200 October 29, 2007 at 10:56 p.m.

ooops!

Roger: "FDR sold 50,000 books? Wow! I thought it would have sold a lot more than that."

Um... eh... Roger... um... how many copies did YOUR third book sell? Just in round figures.. I mean... well... the FIRST book then. None? Oh. You didn't write a book? Why not? What about the book you are writing right now that has been turned down by ... how many publishers is it now? Five? Eight?

Peter Griffiths October 29, 2007 at 10:56 p.m.

<<Brigitte October 29, 2007 at 8:26 p.m.

Paying approx. $2M non-compete to not to compete with himself is not stealing?>>

Depends on the jury, or the judge, if you are able to select that option.

I have prosecuted cases to the British Columbia Supreme Court and seen the "Old Boy's Club" in action. It is not a pretty sight nor memory, but it's real. I'm not saying this doesn't also happen in the USA but if was left up to Canadian courts Black would still be poncing around with a sack of libel lawsuits always at the ready.

The most blatant crime, which although, arguably at least, might not have been properly part of the proceedings in a US Court, was contravening an Order of the Ontario Superior Court, not to remove anything. Jurors have made it clear that in the absence of any testimony from Black, they relied heavily on that video while arriving at their verdicts.

But to me, the real crime was not Black's. It sits with the ontario superior court which to my knowledge, has done nothing since Black so blatantly breached an order from the ontario superior court of justice colin campbell.

CORRECTION - in a recent post I identified the complainant as Milton Glassman. He is, in fact, a Mr. Newton Glassman.

It is my take that once the order was issued, contravening it was not an offence against Mr. Glassman, but became an offence against the Crown.

As far as I know, Bridgette, you are new here. Welcome. It can get pretty lame, with often more than 90% of postings sinking to guttersnipe attacks between the pro's and anti's but there are the occasional worthwhile items.

Understand that although there is this guy named Doug Bell who is supposedly the host and moderator, the site has really been given over a to person who call's him/herself ROGER. He is truly obsesssed and, as I understand yesterday gloated about how easily he was able to derail a topic.

A few months back another poster suggested that the best thing to do was to simply ignore his posts, and he might go away.

It doesn't seem to have worked yet but we are determined to stay the course and hope.

D.L. October 29, 2007 at 10:58 p.m.

FREEDOM IS ENTIRELY A STATE OF MIND.

Many in prison have come to see a freedom that did not exist for them outside,while many pretend academics are solidly encased in the concrete shackles that have them live in disillusionment and fear of success.

Lit 200 October 29, 2007 at 11:02 p.m.

Roger: " am a free person, at least as free as it is possible to be in life."

Roger, really. You are more locked up than Conrad Black will ever be. You cannot see beyond the mountain of your ego. You are finished. You're kaput. You have nowhere to go except to blogs like this to impress other little minds.

You are chained to a rock in a dark cave facing away from the light and you don't know it. Every once in awhile, a ray of pale moonlight enters your cave and puts a shadow on the wall in front of you and that is your reality. That is all you can see. Your chains won't let you see more.

Black may go to prison, but his mind, Roger: His mind is free!

ROGER October 29, 2007 at 11:04 p.m.

THE TOPIC OF MEDIA CONCENTRATION IS A CRITICAL ONE FOR DEMOCRACY

It is a pity that there is no meaningful discussion of it anywhere. The question remains, why is there almost universal concentration of media ownership, and why is it tolerated and even encouraged in democracies?
Why are there no other serious contenders in the media ownership category? Where is the Ontario Teachers' Pension fund, for example--one of the biggest pools of capital in N America?

No one here has yet engaged in this discussion. Perhaps it takes more time than anyone is willing to invest? I have tried this topic numerous times on this blog, but there has never been any takers.

Lit 200 October 29, 2007 at 11:13 p.m.

There is a form of argument put forward by cowards. It is usually an argument used by errant males who know they have been sloppy or careless in the conduct of their lives with respect to their wives or the women in their lives.

When forced to confront their weeknesses, they simply

CHANGE THE TOPIC.

Want to know how it works: Here is a good example. In the middle of a discussion about Conrad Black, one poster under heavy attack says this:

THE TOPIC OF MEDIA CONCENTRATION IS A CRITICAL ONE FOR DEMOCRACY

It is a pity that there is no meaningful discussion of it anywhere. The question remains, why is there almost universal concentration of media ownership, and why is it tolerated and even encouraged in democracies?
Why are there no other serious contenders in the media ownership category? Where is the Ontario Teachers' Pension fund, for example--one of the biggest pools of capital in N America?

No one here has yet engaged in this discussion. Perhaps it takes more time than anyone is willing to invest? I have tried this topic numerous times on this blog, but there has never been any takers.

.... Nice try, Roger.

Lit 200 October 29, 2007 at 11:16 p.m.

DH I see we are of like mind on this matter of real freedom. You made the point more cogently with fewer words. I am ashamed of my digression and my wordiness.

Well said!

not a lawyer or law student October 29, 2007 at 11:19 p.m.

Lit 200 October 29, 2007 at 10:02 p.m.

Roger: " am a free person, at least as free as it is possible to be in life."

Roger, really. You are more locked up than Conrad Black will ever be. You cannot see beyond the mountain of your ego. You are finished. You're kaput. You have nowhere to go except to blogs like this to impress other little minds.

You are chained to a rock in a dark cave facing away from the light and you don't know it. Every once in awhile, a ray of pale moonlight enters your cave and puts a shadow on the wall in front of you and that is your reality. That is all you can see. Your chains won't let you see more.

Black may go to prison, but his mind, Roger: His mind is free!

I beg to differ. Seems pretty obvious by your post that you are really referencing yourself. Those who live in glass houses........

Barbara in BC October 29, 2007 at 11:21 p.m.

Lit200: it was not DH who made that post you agreed with, but someone else called D.L.

Making sockpuppets is a nice hobby I guess.

Lit 200 October 29, 2007 at 11:23 p.m.

Excuse me D.L. I am very sorry for getting your name wrong.
My accolade was intended for you.

ROGER October 29, 2007 at 11:30 p.m.

Lives lived well and discovering the ego

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Sivan...

a disciple writes:

http://sivanandaonline.org/graphics/disc...

Lit 200 October 29, 2007 at 11:40 p.m.

Some kind of legal law student:

" beg to differ. Seems pretty obvious by your post that you are really referencing yourself. Those who live in glass houses........"

What in the name of anything does this mean? Is that the best you can do? "You are talking about yourself?" Feckless! I am sure you can do better than that.

And as for you there babe out in the rainforest without a brolly... that was a real big post you made there, honey. That one was a zinger. Is that your big contribution? I got the name wrong? or have you got something really weighty to say next?

ROGER October 29, 2007 at 11:43 p.m.

YES, REAL FREEDOM IS A STATE OF MIND

What is Black's state of mind? Or Amiel's?

They were trapped in materialism.
Now their material possessions are being stripped from them.

I know of many people who gave away most, and in some cases all, of their material possessions through choice, not under compulsion, and they were happier for it.
I have given away most of what I owned and will soon get rid of my automobile and the last vestiges of material possessions. I no longer have responsibility for material things, beyond the bare minimum. This is not feasible for most people. However, there is an ancient Hindu tradition of older men walking away from their families and renouncing their previous lives, no matter how successful they might have been (it is usually those who have been successful who do it), and become beggars who own only the clothes on their backs and their begging bowls. Compare that to Black. In renouncing their previous lives, they also renounce their families--imagine the strength it takes for the families and the person doing the renouncing.
Of course one can critique such isolationism, but in our materialist age, it is refreshing that there are still people who crave more than fancy dinner parties and fool's errand trips to Bora Bora.

Victoria October 29, 2007 at 11:43 p.m.

Hey, y'all!

I was looking up peni-s colonies on the internet but must have mispeeled it.

I have to admit being shocked to see it stated so blandly by posters here but of course anal rape is part of the US justice system. The implied threat of such a horrific act happening is part of what is supposed to keep us on the straight and narrow. Going to jail is not going to be a few weeks or months whereby you get some uninterrupted time to write your memoirs, etc.

Why do you think they used to call them "penal" colonies?

Lit 200 October 29, 2007 at 11:44 p.m.

Roger, if you had ever indeed studied under Swami Sivananda you could no more write the kind of hate-filled posts that you write here than you could fly. You could no more hope so desperately for the pain and anguish of another sentient being than you display here than you could fly to the moon. That post is a complete fraud.

Lit 200 October 29, 2007 at 11:48 p.m.

Roger tries to play word games with me! LOL!!

This is what you preach?

"Above all, love God, do charity, purify yourself through all sorts of Yoga practices-Japa, meditation, and all that. Meditate and realise the Upanishadic truths. The next line is: "Be good, do good, be compassionate." The third: "Enquire who am I, know the self and be free." Combine all these in your daily Sadhana."

I am sure your wishes for Black's complete humiliation in front of the world is a strong and admirable daily Sadhana.

What a complete fraud.

ROGER October 29, 2007 at 11:53 p.m.

MY ADVICE TO BLACK AND AMIEL REMAINS

Do work to benefit your fellow people. Devote your time and energy helping the poor, the dispossessed, the mentally challenged, those living on the margins. The wealthy and middle-class also struggle daily with family members who are afflicted with alzheimers, psychosis and neuroses. Everywhere one turns, there is an abundance of work awaiting those who wish to help and make a real meaningful difference in people's lives. Greed and naked ambition can only take one so far in life. And when one reflects back, was it worth it? How many millions are enough to sate the appetite of the greedy? Amiel and Black could never have been satisfied no matter how much they had, they always hungered for more.

Their lives, their downfall, is a cautionary tale to those who worship at the altar of greed and the neocon religion of conquest and domination.

But even in this quest, Black would likely embrace the televangelical rather than the humble path of the meek. Pride which o'erleaps itself is nothing new. There is no magic cure.

Lit 200 October 30, 2007 at midnight

Roger's boastful post: "I have given away most of what I owned and will soon get rid of my automobile and the last vestiges of material possessions.:

This means nothing, for poor Roger, poor, poor Roger, you still keep your hate filled mind. You still keep your wish to punish and see punished. You still retain your desire to humiliate and scorn. You proceed by belittling. I am afraid you are a fraud from your own mouth. But to continue...

"This is not feasible for most people [however, it is entirely feasible for me for, you see, I am an advanced human being] and to carry on with the boast:

"However, there is an ancient Hindu tradition of older men walking away from their families and renouncing their previous lives [We have the same thing in Canada roger, it is called abandonment of familial responsibilty]

no matter how successful they might have been (it is usually those who have been successful who do it... translation folks: I have been very successful)

"and become beggars who own only the clothes on their backs and their begging bowls. Compare that to Black." To hell with Black, compare that to YOU. How bloody mawkish can you get?

"In renouncing their previous lives, they also renounce their families--imagine the strength it takes for the families and the person doing the renouncing." Yeah, sure... leave your family in the lurch. Big renunciation and you expect people to applaud you for this selfish act!!!

Beyond the pale. Phony. But even to think of it... beyond the pale.

Lit 200 October 30, 2007 at 12:06 a.m.

And now we get wise compassion from the hate-filled Roger who has, on many occasions, with ill-concealed glee, contemplated the misery that Black is to suffer at the hands of his guards and fellow prisoners... now, roger talks of "the humble path of the meek. Pride which o'erleaps itself is nothing new. There is no magic cure."

Who is writing this crap for you Roger? I know it isn't you.
I cannot believe you have fallen so far as to offer this mawkish, false, sentimental half-baked tripe.

Even Worm101 is ashamed of you.

Barbara in BC October 30, 2007 at 12:18 a.m.

Lit200 poked me thusly:

"And as for you there babe out in the rainforest without a brolly... that was a real big post you made there, honey. That one was a zinger."

I have better things to do than argue with you. There's nothing even debatable anymore. You keep challenging people and when they reply, you say they're boring you with the same posts over and over.

ROGER October 30, 2007 at 12:18 a.m.

Of course Swami Siva Ventekesananda was the disciple who wrote such delightful pieces as the Marionettes Games, building on ideas of CG Jung, who in turn had ripped off ideas from the Orient.

http://sivanandaonline.org/graphics/disc...

This is the problem with Black and Amiel. They play marionette games and mistake their fantasies for reality. Of course they are entitled to their delusions, as long as it harms no one else. But they harmed too many other people. Indeed, their delusions and games were criminal. They stole other people's money and ruined lives along the way. Of course Radler was a major partner in both the robbery and the ruining of lives. 29 months or so is way to short a time for Radler, but that is the way the law works.

I do feel sorry for Black and his family. But feeling sorry ought not prevent punishment. Black's crimes were not mere robbery of monies, it was his ideological crimes that he has gotten away with that make him personally culpable of big crimes. He was charged and convicted on the little crimes. For that he will be punished. For his big crimes, as Fintan has pointed out, he will be punished by nature, also known as Karma. Black's kismet, his destiny, will unfold after Nov 30 in a cramped prison cell in his version of utopia, America.

Lit 200 October 30, 2007 at 12:22 a.m.

To quote Wormwood101 in one of his better posts: "stick a fork in [Roger's] ass and turn him over. He's done."

Lit 200 October 30, 2007 at 12:28 a.m.

The babe without a brolly: "I have better things to do than argue with you."

Of course you do. Look after that teenaged daughter of yours instead of spending all your time on this blog. Bake some cookies, cook dinner. Make yourself useful. Or are you going to follow roger in his very male-oriented task of self enlightenment by leaving his family cold and running off with a younger woman and calling it self enlightenment.

Bah. Humbug! Humbug I say!!!

ROGER October 30, 2007 at 12:31 a.m.

THE TRUE YOGI EXPERIENCES NOTHING MATERIAL

A yogi can lower his metabolism while sitting in a frigid room or a hot room, can be sealed in an airtight container and survive for longer periods than other mortals. It is a training of the mind. The trained mind does not feel cold or heat or suffer the indignities of physical assault. They can will away reality. They can indeed walk on coals.

Black cannot do any of that. In Aesop's fable of Scheherazade's Thousand and One Nights, we have the story of the princess who was of such high breeding and cultivation that she could feel a tiny pea buried deep beneath numerous mattresses piled one atop another. Black is such a spoilt brat. Black will feel even minor discomforts. Black will feel the hard concrete and steel of his bed, the bed he made for himself with his thievery.
It will feel like hot coals on the spoilt and soft skin of Black. The sheets will feel like course paper. His orange jumpsuit will feel like sandpaper as it chafes him.

Yes, Black will know he is in a vile and ugly place. Where the yogi would be serene anywhere, Black will find comfort nowhere. And Black's supporters know this only too well. Hear them howl, hear them roar, hear them whimper and whine. The die has been cast, the Rubicon crossed. Nov 30 is the climax. Black will exit the stage of public life and become a prisoner with a number, another anonymous face on a forgotten list in the American prison complex (yes, yes, this line contains a lovely piece of plagiarism that delights me no end).

Lit 200 October 30, 2007 at 12:32 a.m.

Contrast the crap we just read from Roger with something he posted earlier today. Will the real Roger please stand UP!!

"On Nov 30, the fat lady will sing, the ax will fall. Black's public life will come to an end. History will have a footnote about a petty thief, not even a big time crook, lacking in enterprise in everything he did, one of the biggest failures of children who inherit the big and lose it all through stupidity. However, Black and Amiel will mostly be remembered as pathetic clowns who were the laughing stock of both high society, politicians and the working people. Black and Amiel united disparate people in their derision and contempt and ridicule and laughter at the petty bourgeois social climber antics of Amiel and Black. Don't they look silly now in those pictures as Antoinette and Richelieu? They look like ghouls raised from the dead to terrify people. Were they attending a halloween party? Where Black is going, it is halloween all the time! Very scary and no one needs some silly outfit to look mean.

ROGER October 30, 2007 at 12:46 a.m.

LEAF, THANK YOU FOR DILIGENTLY READING MY VERBOSE POSTS

They are addicting huh. Soon you will get a certificate for your conscientious study of my brilliant gems in the rough posted here. Think of it as fertilizer for your mind. It will cause your tiny mind to grow. I just hope you remember to let sufficient air out of your ears to allow for expansion of your tiny brain, else there will be compression--a very bad thing for a little brain.

Keep up the good work! Hang on my every word. I especially like when you wade through reading my longer posts--it shows real devotion! I am duly flattered and impressed by your hard work. Keep it up!

lit 200 October 30, 2007 at 12:49 a.m.

A dirty beggar, filth clinging to every fold of his clothing and loose, flabby skin. Eyes flimed over. People avert their eyes and hold their noses as they pass him on the darkening street, listening to him drone on in a constant stream of mumbled invective. "Black... a devil... stole from the rich... ha ha ha! made a mistake... now in jail... ha. ha ha... neocon... got what he deserved... ha ha ha..."

A long black limo pulls up and out steps Conrad Black and Barbara Amiel, smiling, at ease, having an evening out at a favoured restaurant with delicious food... dressed to the nines." Black steps over to Roger and drops a 10 spot in the cracked bowl... "have a nice evening old timer!" and they saunter away, Black whistling a merry tune and swinging a gold-handled walkng stick, a full appeal court pardon in his pocket.

ROGER October 30, 2007 at 12:53 a.m.

PRISON IS BLACK'S OPPORTUNITY FOR ENLIGHTENMENT!

Yes, prison is where Black will feel and become one with the universe.

Lit 200 October 30, 2007 at 12:53 a.m.

Hear the words falling like pearls from a true adept, a humble man, a forgiving man, a man on the path to self enlightenment... listen carefully to the wisdom, the selfless generosity of spirit...

"Think of it as fertilizer for your mind. It will cause your tiny mind to grow. I just hope you remember to let sufficient air out of your ears to allow for expansion of your tiny brain, else there will be compression--a very bad thing for a little brain."

How very revealing!

Are you a little worked up? Good. Because I am going to my rest now. But be careful what you say or I will have to come back and whip your ass again.

not a lawyer or law student October 30, 2007 at 12:53 a.m.

Lit 200 -

Either you have a substance abuse problem, are an alcoholic and currently drunk or you are seriously emotionally disturbed but I suggest that you re read your posts and YOU determine if there isn't something very off kilter, sub normal or just plain distorted and dysfunctional with these posts and hence with and about you. Get help - your posts scream " I need psychiatric help and pronto ".

lit 200 October 30, 2007 at 1:08 a.m.

Dear not anything. I think your last post shows that you are not a psychologist either.

The only thing off kilter and sub normal here is Roger's unremitting sick desire to see Conrad Black suffer.

That and your ridiculous attempts at character analysis.

ROGER October 30, 2007 at 1:08 a.m.

Lit 200 begs " Because I am going to my rest now. "

LOL! Leaf=Lit200=Wave99=Hensen.... =dumped by her first true and only love and her "in-laws" who were soooo nice to her. Poor thing. I really ought to give her a break. She must be a Black relative who is hurtin' bad.

Imagine the atmosphere in that Palm Beach mansion prison with Amiel raging at Black and Black trying to maintain his bluster between his anxiety attacks. The debt collectors hounding them for payment, the process servers visiting at all hours with more and more lawsuits, the corrections people visiting to do assessments on Black, asking impertinent, impudent questions. It must be tempting to just wish the time to fly to Nov 30 to get it over with, but of coure there is the dred of Nov 30 and what follows.

Black, Amiel and the family needs competent therapeutic counselors, but they are likely too proud to seek out such services. They ought to have had them during the trial and preceding the trial--it would have made things easier.

ROGER October 30, 2007 at 1:12 a.m.

LIT HOPEFUL in her despair: "Are you a little worked up?"

Nope. I can churn out stuff to occupy you without even thinking. Indeed, it allows me to think of other matters while I occupy my lower thought processes.

I sure have put your head on a spin dry cycle tonight. I hope you are not too dizzy.

jade_lee October 30, 2007 at 1:15 a.m.

LOL ROGER, i LOVE THE DRAMA

ROGER October 30, 2007 at 1:18 a.m.

>a full appeal court pardon in his pocket.<

Black the trained lawyer would of course know that an appellate court could never ever grant him a pardon.

No court in America can pardon anyone, least of all Black.

Blunt Beaver October 30, 2007 at 1:19 a.m.

Before you ask, I'll tell you it happened the first time I tried to ride my brothers bike.

I have visited this site occasionally but never spoken up before. Although there were some interesting comments and obviously some smart people taking time to put forth their views, it seemed to be so overwhelmed by posers (especially THE ONE WHO CANT MAKE A POINT WITHOUT USING CAP-LOCK), that I asked one of my programmers to write me a little filter, that would block anything that came from ROGER. While that seemed to work, there were still far too many posts responding to ROGER so I asked for the filter to strip them too. While the volume has gone down by 90%, its really much easier to see who is talking about the topic.

But I feel selfish. I know there are many others who attend here who would like to have this filter in place so I am making a one time offer - $19.95 and he will be gone.

Just answer "yes, please, I'll buy a copy" and a download will be arranged.

ROGER October 30, 2007 at 1:23 a.m.

JADE-LEE, I must admit it is a little bad of me to mess with poor Lit/Leaf's little mind (lit is short for little), but I find it keeps her occupied and it is probably therapeutic for her. Imagine if all she had was time to dwell on how she was dumped by the love of her life? That is not healthy. I think we can all relate to some rejection at some point in our lives and can show her compassion. But right now, the most important thing is to keep her mind on something else. And in her fragile state to have to deal with Black's problems at the same time! Life just isn't fair. Poor thing.

jab3 October 30, 2007 at 1:26 a.m.

A Christmas Carol": Bah Humbug, ect." How appropriate for a Black sympathizer to appropriate as a term of derison against someone critical of Black an epithet used by the unreformed Scrooge to dismiss the charitable, giving season of Christmas.

Black looked down on Canada's kindness and care for ordinary people, even felons, he thought Canada was a dumbish, second-rate humbug. He wanted more pomp and unfettered bare-knuckle capitalism in his life. Unfortunately he could not keep within the law in the tougher-minded regime he and his current Lady so admired; thus his current predicament.
I don't want him to have a long and nasty jail sentence. I also don't want him back in my country. Let him get published and go on tv in his chosen home, Britain.

gary e October 30, 2007 at 1:29 a.m.

The level of debate has improved immeasurably today. Some great writing.

Thank you.

Lit 200 October 30, 2007 at 1:33 a.m.

Roger: "No court in America can pardon anyone..."

Of course not. Nor will you ever find Roger seeking enlightenment with a begging bowl. I don't know whether you got that or not. Probably not.

You don't see the unbridgeable gap between your professed positions do you? Anyone could drive an 18-wheel truck through your credibility.

ROGER October 30, 2007 at 1:40 a.m.

yes please, I'll buy a copy.

SORRY, YES PLEASE, I'LL BUY A COPY!

ROGER October 30, 2007 at 1:42 a.m.

WHEN ONE MAKES A MISTAKE, a simple admission of error is always the best policy. To try to belabour the point makes the original error worse.

No court can pardon anyone in America. Simple, polite, straightforward.

A Publisher October 30, 2007 at 2:10 a.m.

Re: "Adams points out that Black’s publisher likely wouldn’t have sent Black on the road anyway, since his previous biography of Roosevelt sold only 50,000 copies.”

It would be more accurate to state "there were only 50,000 copies printed." How many of those have actually been purchased is still unknown but best estimate is less than 6,000.

a shrink October 30, 2007 at 2:24 a.m.

not a lawyer or law student October 29, 2007 at 11:53 p.m.

Lit 200 -

Either you have a substance abuse problem, are an alcoholic and currently drunk or you are seriously emotionally disturbed but I suggest that you re read your posts and YOU determine if there isn't something very off kilter, sub normal or just plain distorted and dysfunctional with these posts and hence with and about you. Get help - your posts scream " I need psychiatric help and pronto ".

a concerned doctor October 30, 2007 at 2:28 a.m.

not a lawyer or law student October 29, 2007 at 11:53 p.m.

Lit 200 -

Either you have a substance abuse problem, are an alcoholic and currently drunk or you are seriously emotionally disturbed but I suggest that you re read your posts and YOU determine if there isn't something very off kilter, sub normal or just plain distorted and dysfunctional with these posts and hence with and about you. Get help - your posts scream " I need psychiatric help and pronto ".

echo October 30, 2007 at 2:34 a.m.

Lit 200 is nuts
Lit 200 is nuts
Lit 200 is nuts
Lit 200 is nuts
Lit 200 is nuts
Lit 200 is nuts

bert n ernie October 30, 2007 at 2:50 a.m.

Lit 200 - Watch out - mach truck heading your way and gonna kill your credibility. OOPS! Already did. Suggestion? Hire shrink and set yourself up for ultra intense, biweekly therapy sessions, get shock treatment and then get placed on heap powerful meds.

another publisher October 30, 2007 at 3:06 a.m.

I am willing to bet that Black's FDR biography sold less than 6000 copies and his Nixon travesty will sell like his Duplessis book - nada - Black ought to realize that he is ONE BOOOOOOOOOOORING BLOWHARD whose editor and publisher should return the bribes they were given by Black.

katie rose October 30, 2007 at 3:11 a.m.

How criminal it is to cut so many valuable old-growth rain-forrest trees to print a worthless 50,000 books with 1,000
pages each about the opinion of felon-writer on the subject of a politician who gave away half of europe to the mass murderer stalin.

poster October 30, 2007 at 3:31 a.m.

ROGER October 30, 2007 at 12:08 a.m.

Lit 200 begs " Because I am going to my rest now. "

LOL! Leaf=Lit200=Wave99=Hensen.... =dumped by her first true and only love and her "in-laws" who were soooo nice to her. Poor thing. I really ought to give her a break. She must be a Black relative who is hurtin' bad.

Imagine the atmosphere in that Palm Beach mansion prison with Amiel raging at Black and Black trying to maintain his bluster between his anxiety attacks. The debt collectors hounding them for payment, the process servers visiting at all hours with more and more lawsuits, the corrections people visiting to do assessments on Black, asking impertinent, impudent questions. It must be tempting to just wish the time to fly to Nov 30 to get it over with, but of coure there is the dred of Nov 30 and what follows.

Black, Amiel and the family needs competent therapeutic counselors, but they are likely too proud to seek out such services. They ought to have had them during the trial and preceding the trial--it would have made things easier.

hahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahaah!!!!!! Too funny! I LOVE it!

wave99 October 30, 2007 at 8:43 a.m.

Hey Barb, Roger, Finsomething, W101....

hypothetical for you to ponder.

Let's say one of two things happenand that you are correct on your assumptions.

#1: Let's say Black does get what is virtually a life sentence and we learn that sometime within the next few years he is brutally gang raped and stabbed to death while in prison.

Will you write publicly at that time as well, how amusing that would be ? Will Bubba make another appearance to state he did it ?

Will you be equally proud about being correct ?

Your humanity ( Not Black's...wanting to see him totured has nothing to do with Black's past,present or future )is pathetically non-existent.

#2: Let's say that he reads this blog. And in reading it,with all the other stresses that inevitably exist, he begins to buy into your ideas that he will be abused,perhaps killed. So, he decides to pre-empt it. And he takes his own life.

Will you yet again boast about being correct ? Will it show his true, weak, character ? Will it give you the satisfaction that you seek ?

Have any of you lost someone close to suicide ? It's not a fun process, you f- cking jerks.

Lit 200 October 30, 2007 at 8:57 a.m.

This is a warning for Roger and Wanker101. Be very careful with inanimate love objects! I think you guys should give up tricycles before something bad happens. Barbara without a brolly in bucolia, do NOT read this. It's not for you.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/global/main.j...

Lit 200 October 30, 2007 at 9:02 a.m.

Just before I start my day. Do you think, Roger, that you are insulting me by calling me a woman? You are not. I take it as a compliment.

As for thinking I am this or that other blogger, I am not and you know it. I have indulged in one other alias - second thoughts - the on who exposed your ignorance about the law and instructed you on Judge Amy St Eve's actual instructions to the jury that erroneously convicted Conrad Black of obstruction of justice. Otherwise, I am just me, Lit 200. Your worst nightmare.

Lit 200 October 30, 2007 at 9:03 a.m.

Wave. Good post. Condolences.

marie piere October 30, 2007 at 9:30 a.m.

It is possible that the felon may not survive jail time, because as one of his idols Al Capone, the felon may enter into arguments with inmates and guards.

sam October 30, 2007 at 9:32 a.m.

Crossharbour is too cowardly to take his own life

curious October 30, 2007 at 10:35 a.m.

Lit 200 October 30, 2007 at 8:02 a.m.

Just before I start my day. Do you think, Roger, that you are insulting me by calling me a woman? You are not. I take it as a compliment.

Why do you take that as a compliment?

responsible adult October 30, 2007 at 10:45 a.m.

It is difficult to imagine two more obviously seriously mentally and emotionally impaired individuals than wave99 and Lit 200. You can't be real....? Do either of you have any inkling about how truly disturbed you both are? Self awareness appears to be completely lacking with both of you and if it were not so sad, it would be hilarious. Your family members - if you have any who care - have got to be totally ashamed and embarrassed and have more than likely abandoned and given up on you. Which is probably why you spend all your waking hours in front of a computer screen. People like you absolutely creep me out.

Lit 200 October 30, 2007 at 11 a.m.

irresponsible:

Go ahead and be creeped out. Absolutely.

If you cannot see the viciousness and mean-hearted, souless narrowness of mind and boastful, puffed up self-promotion, the caustic scorn, ceaseless and repetitive vituperation and insult that we are pointing out in Roger and W101 and Fintan, well then it is YOU that needs some remediation.

hackette October 30, 2007 at 11:01 a.m.

another publisher's post is right on target -- i suspect alot of chicanery involved in stats of sales of black tomes. After all his agent is the egregious michael levine who promoted doug pepper as new head of M & S and had no trouble unloading the latest black doorstopper on m and s....

james adams was kind in the globe

Lit 200 October 30, 2007 at 11:10 a.m.

Curious,

In answer to your excellent question: Because, although I am not a woman, I admire the special capabilities that women have and men do not. After eons of paternalism that kept women subservient, they are now taking their rightful place as leaders in politics, business, science and the arts.

Despite the fact that they have been historically regarded as less worthy than men, especially in the mindset of Christian and Islamic theology, their stature has been and is constantly rising.

The sensibility of women has been honed by centuries of oppression (I don't think that is too strong a word) and while they guarded the hearth, they have learned the lessons that men have forgotten: of usefulness, of making do, of doing many tasks at the same time.

So, if someone mistakenly thinks I am performing in this high functioning way, then I take that as a compliment.

Does that satisfy your curiosity?

ekaterina October 30, 2007 at 11:16 a.m.

conrad: prior to entering jail take cyanide to show that you are a victim and a hero.

johnny October 30, 2007 at 11:22 a.m.

Black is not going to be jailed on Nov 30th. The trial judge is going to let him free to write and talk to hang himself by the time of the appeal one year from now.

Lit 200 October 30, 2007 at 11:43 a.m.

hackette

You don't like Doug Pepper either? I think he's great for books in Canada. What's wrong with Pepper? You must be a vanity publisher. Jay F Sus, who DO you like as MS publisher, other than yourself that is.

From a recent interview:

M&S has been deeply involved with a flowering of Cana­dian nationalism in publishing. Yet you made your name in the U.S. Are we still the little brother?

When I was in the U.S., colleagues looked to Canada for the best writing in the world, and not only admired but were somewhat jealous of our literary tradition. For a very small country, we export a lot of writers, and not many other countries do that, especially ones next door to the most powerful country in the world.

crystal ball October 30, 2007 at 12:03 p.m.

Prediction - Conrad Black will hire a hit man to knock himself off - Sam is correct - Black is too cowardly to off himself.

responsible adult October 30, 2007 at 12:19 p.m.

Lit 200 October 30, 2007 at 10 a.m.

irresponsible:

Go ahead and be creeped out. Absolutely.

If you cannot see the viciousness and mean-hearted, souless narrowness of mind and boastful, puffed up self-promotion, the caustic scorn, ceaseless and repetitive vituperation and insult that we are pointing out in Roger and W101 and Fintan, well then it is YOU that needs some remediation.

When you come down off your self elevated pedestal, fairly commonplace in emotionally disturbed nutcases ( you ), call a shrink and get yourself some help. You need it. There is very little more annoying than a totally oblivious fool and you are a standout.

gary e October 30, 2007 at 12:21 p.m.

Donna, the responsible adult.
Chickenshlt.

Barbara in BC October 30, 2007 at 12:41 p.m.

wave99: I hear your sadness and I want to state that I absolutely don't want Conrad Black to suffer cruel and unusual punishment. Or commit suicide. A few years in jail is fine with me as long [as he doesn't promote any more Middle East wars from jail].

Barbara in BC October 30, 2007 at 12:43 p.m.

The oozing fake concern from "responsible adult" is nauseating. Donna, get a life.

Lit 200 October 30, 2007 at 1:28 p.m.

Barbara

Bingo!

:-o)

responsible adult October 30, 2007 at 2 p.m.

To Lit 200

You are creepy, scary, disgusting and weird and you have proved this in post after post after post within the past few days. You lack a life apart from this blog, it seems, and perhaps you might join that other nauseating creepy crawly, Barbara in BC. Talk about getting a life - seems you are the only ones who post here on a regular basis. Why? Because you lack normal, functional, productive lives.

gary e October 30, 2007 at 2:46 p.m.

The Girls are still too embarrassed to put their name on their prattle.

Chickenshlt.

from Calgary October 30, 2007 at 3:04 p.m.

Yup, responsible adult is Donna. Why won't Donna post as herself anymore? If I'm not mistaken, she 'disappeared' right after CB appeared on Rick Mercer. I suspect she saw a ghost.

ROGER October 30, 2007 at 3:33 p.m.

PRISONS ARE BIG BUSINESS IN THE USA.

They make money off warehousing all those prisoners then on top of that, they contract out their labour and pocket most of the money--prison is a sweat shop economy right inside the USA. They try to get the prisoners to grow and process their own food and sew their own clothes and clean and staff most of the jails, so the inputs are minimal. Black is going to be an input into a capitalist enterprise. There are no trade unions in jails for inmates in America. He won't be able to complain about working conditions or the management. Black ought to like it. It is his kind of capitalism! Radler will probably give the management ideas on how to really wring more money out by trimming more costs. Radler will start by suggesting ways to make the prison where Black is incarcerated more cost efficient. Instead of orange jump suits, prisoners will just get a standard loinclothe--one size fits (or doesn't) all. In most parts of the world, people don't use toilet paper--next thing to go. Beds are really luxury items--on many parts of the world, millions of people sleep on bed rolls on the floor. Why bother with bedrolls? They will make the inmates sleep on the bare concrete floor. These measures will be wildly popular with neocon taxpayers who will welcome the money saved on these luxury items for the worst criminals in America--a tax cut would be in order, and of course more profits for the prison corporations shareholders, who are proprietors.

Medical treatment and food are the other big ticket items. I think W101 posted about the delicious hot dog diet packed with essential nutrients and the unmentionable parts of animals that are raised on prison farms. I am sure a lot of those luxury meals can be delivered cheaper, much cheaper. Afterall, the price of grains have skyrocketed since biofuels have taken off.
As for medicare, prison guards could be cross-trained to perform medical care, surgery and internal medicine, saving lots of money for taxpayers. Most prison guards could be laid off too--let the prisoners guard themselves inside the jail. In fact, maybe let the prisoners perform surgery on each other. Ayn Rand would approve such a dismantling of the government's over-reach! Black would approve of capitalism in jails--he could live his unfettered free market dream in jail. I wonder whether Radler will start buying up jails in America? Radler could end up having Black as his guest in a jail he owns.

ROGER October 30, 2007 at 3:41 p.m.

I USED TO BELIEVE IN CAPITAL PUNISHMENT, BUT

long-term imprisonment has possibilities. Black ought not to be burnt at the stake as I initially thought. Nope. He ought to be incarcerated indefinitely in an American regular jail. Long-term imprisonment in America is a living hell. Soon Black and his gang will be there. No club fed for these bozos.

I look forward to the Maclean's best prisons of America series, complete with their support for taxpayer satisfaction with cost cutting on prison luxuries for those ingrate inmates. I look forward to the interview with Lord Tubby and the introductions to his cell-mates. The National Post ought to have a dedicated prison life reporter. The cause of inmates and prison improvements will never have better coverage and support in rightwing circles than with Blacks tenure in the big zoo.

ROGER October 30, 2007 at 3:50 p.m.

ChickenLittle wrote>The sensibility of women has been honed by centuries of oppression (I don't think that is too strong a word) and while they guarded the hearth, they have learned the lessons that men have forgotten: of usefulness, of making do<

Yep, sounds like Barbara Amiel, especially the making do part. Amiel's sensibilities must have been honed by centuries of oppression.

ROGER October 30, 2007 at 4:01 p.m.

THERE IS NO GREATER ENEMY OF RIGHTS FOR WOMEN THAN AMIEL

Strange huh, but true! How come all the rightwingers have suddenly become the champions of women's rights? Yep, there we have George W Bush and Dick Cheney and all the good ole boys out there going to war over women's rights!

Just a small question. Are women the property of men in parts of the USA? See this clip before you answer:

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/p...

It involves the law!

W101 October 30, 2007 at 4:03 p.m.

As a writer Roger is far more engaging than Black. Roger's lectures are interesting and funny!

Black is, let's face it, ultra boring.

Most damning to Black's credibility as writer is his legendary intellectual dishonesty -- if a fact doesn't suit his argument, he'll twist, misrepresent, and outright lie.

The veracity of his books and columns is as dubious as his accreditation at the perennially money-losing National Post.

Barbara in BC October 30, 2007 at 4:43 p.m.

Agree with W101 about Black's tendency to "twist, misrepresent, and outright lie". The first instance of this I saw were his slurs against Canadians back in the 80's, he claimed we were solely motivated by envy. We hated rich people because we were envious, we criticized America because we envied them. No mention of our valid criticism of the illegal war in Vietnam: nope it was just plain envy.

All I can say is that he either has a superficial way of viewing the world, or he is outright deceitful.

responsible adult October 30, 2007 at 4:49 p.m.

I look forward to the Maclean's best prisons of America series, complete with their support for taxpayer satisfaction with cost cutting on prison luxuries for those ingrate inmates. I look forward to the interview with Lord Tubby and the introductions to his cell-mates. The National Post ought to have a dedicated prison life reporter. The cause of inmates and prison improvements will never have better coverage and support in rightwing circles than with Blacks tenure in the big zoo - Roger

Brilliant.....LOL! I love to read your posts. Keep it up. Far more engaging, humourous, intelligent than anything Black could or would ever write. Additionally, do not let up on that scary weirdo, Lit 200. About time someone kicked that sicko off this site or better still, the internet.

W101 October 30, 2007 at 4:58 p.m.

"I wonder whether Radler will start buying up jails in America? Radler could end up having Black as his guest in a jail he owns."
-----

LOL! How awesomely Machiavellian.

responsible adult October 30, 2007 at 4:59 p.m.

Roger - your lengthy post above on US prisons is absolutely hysterical and totally brilliant! You really ought to publish - if you haven't already done so. Your posts are sensational.

W101 October 30, 2007 at 6:03 p.m.

BBC: All I can say is that he either has a superficial way of viewing the world, or he is outright deceitful.
=====

Black is a complete nutbar, I once had the misfortune of being assigned to his his column at a business publication. This was before he got really arrogant, He would fudge facts all the time. He'd write something like "Contrary to what the ninnies on Bay Street are saying, the company, thanks to the austere stewardship of Mr. X, is now making money hand over fist." In fact, the company's financial reports told a different story, the business was doing worse than ever. When you brought this to Black's attention, he'd hit the roof, and launch a venemous attack, raging at upper management that the moron editors who understood nothing of the real business world wanted to massacre his column and make him look like a fool! (Like he needs anyone to help him with that!) His MO was to bully people until he got what he wanted.

Barbara in BC October 30, 2007 at 6:27 p.m.

Interesting story W101. I guess that Black is truly a deceiver, who thinks he can create his own reality. Nope, in a fight between truth and lies eventually the truth wins.

Lit 200 October 30, 2007 at 6:49 p.m.

Proscenium is dark. Soft spot gradually illuminates ROGER on a raised dais centre stage. He is a short, gaunt and bald-headed man with dark glasses dressed in a tattered robe with five university degrees pinned to the hem. He holds a begging bowl in one hand.

ROG: Arrghhhh (clears his throat ... three beats)

ROG: (loudly) PRISONS ARE BIG BUSINESS IN THE US OF A!

Second spot illuminates a bent old crone, CHICAGO, she has a large stick in her hand. She is staring in rapt adoration at Roger. She turns to stage right and screams into the darkness:

CHI: YOU ARE CREEPY, SCARY, DISGUSTING AND WEIRD!

Third spot rises on a male, BYSTANDER, stage far right. who is standing in a hole in the stage, waist deep.

BSR: Who? Me?

CHI: YOU CAN JOIN THAT OTHER CREEPY CRAWLEY BARB IN BC!

Fourth spot indicates a comfortable, full figured woman in an even deeper hole. Only her head is visible to the audience.

BRB: That's not very nice.

ROG: THEY HIRE CONVICTS OUT AND POCKET THE MONEY!

CHI (a look of rapt adoration, clasps her hands and gazes up) BRILLIANT!! OH GOD, DON'T STOP.

Suddenly a marionette figure, Worm, pops up from stage left, clown head and arms dangling in another soft spot as he speaks in a high falsetto ...

WRM: HE'S MORE ENGAGING THAN BLACK!

CHI: SHUT UP (wacks Worm with her stick)

BRB: I don't think that's very nice.

ROG: (screaming, brandishing his begging bowl) I USED TO BELIEVE IN CAPITAL PUNISHMENT!

CHI: ABSOLUTELY HYSTERICAL! I AM FALLING OFF MY CHAIR!

BST: (stage whisper, to the audience) This place is a madhouse!

ROG: (yelling in rage!) THERE IS NO GREATER ENEMY OF WOMEN THAN AMIEL!

WRM: (pops up again): ROGER'S LECTURES ARE INTERESTING AND FUNNY!

CHI: SHUT UP. (hits WRM again with her stick.. puts it under her arm and applauds Roger, who bows elaborately.)

ROG: ARE WOMEN THE PROPERTY OF MEN?

CHI: OH OH OH... OH YOU ARE MAKING ME... OH ROGER!!!

BRB: I don't think that is very nice. Tut tut, I say.

CHI: SHUT UP CREEPY CRAWLY SCARY!

BS: Somebody get me the hell out of here.

ROG: STRANGE HUH? BUT... (begging bowl held aloft)... TRUE!!!

CHI AND WRM (in unison) YAAAYYYY ROGER!!!

Bystander: The inmates are running the asylum

Quick curtain.

W

annabel-lee October 30, 2007 at 7:15 p.m.

Invest in the us prison industry and make big bucks. The us prison industry is the fastest growing in the land. Much of it is described by a post above. radler was approached by the prison tycoons to come up with ideas to wring out more money from the two million inmates. With the prospect of his former partner going to prison, radler is excited at the job offer. Escalators to be dismantled as a first step.
Inmates to be farmed out at 25 cents an hour to small newspaper companies and cross-trained as columnists is next.
Job opportunity for felon-conrad.

Bob S, not Bob C October 30, 2007 at 7:24 p.m.

I'm beginning to wonder whether there's an element of churning going on here.

Despite the occasional threat from the host that contributions might be moderated, there has been no effort to carry this out. It seems, to me, that several posters are doing so under different names, which could be nipped in the bud by one, just one exposure of an examplar culprit.

Could it be that, in this dry period (in news terms), a bucket of water is being thrown upon the wilting plants just to perk them up? If so, whose hand is behind the bucket?

W101 October 30, 2007 at 7:29 p.m.

Seriously Twit, I did try and read your attempt at comic theatre, but it's really bad. I only managed to get through the first few lines before the it feels like your head is being crushed in a vise feeling set in.

Perhaps it's because I've adjusted to being significantly less-than-enthralled by your posts, but up until your awf-Broadway fiasco, it seems you had been making progress, i actually managed to get through a bunch of Twit messages without wincing so badly the words became a nonsensical blur.

While wry humour clearly isn't your forte, there are all kinds of outlets that might accomodate your thankfully unique style, e.g. recipes, train schedules.

Who knows, if you continue under Roger's tutelage, you could eventually work your way up to legal disclaimers and website privacy policies and the like!

responsible adult / scared poster October 30, 2007 at 7:57 p.m.

No need to expound upon or explain why Lit 200 is disturbed - his latest post and pathetically stupid attempt at humour is simply downright embarrassing - for him. He has every reason to feel ashamed and humiliated. Imagine how really sick one must be that one has so little to do in one's life that he sits on a web site and proceeds to frighten other posters with his truly disturbed and demented ravings. The internet is filled with all manner of nutcases and Lit 200 is not unusual. What IS weird, however, is his total lack of awareness of how he comes across to other posters as a creepy, disgusting mole or rodent. Not too dificult to understand why this epitome of strangeness sits on the web all day - he probably looks like the back end of of a porker and the internet affords him the opportunity to be anyone he wants to be. Very very sad.

gary e October 30, 2007 at 8:13 p.m.

Caustic bitch.

GW October 30, 2007 at 8:21 p.m.

"responsible adult"? Dunga, you're a joke!!

Disgusted October 30, 2007 at 8:21 p.m.

Re: responsible adult / scared poster October 30, 2007 at 6:57 p.m.

No need to expound upon or explain why Lit 200 is disturbed - his latest post and pathetically stupid attempt at humour is simply downright embarrassing - for him. He has every reason to feel ashamed and humiliated. Imagine how really sick one must be that one has so little to do in one's life that he sits on a web site and proceeds to frighten other posters with his truly disturbed and demented ravings. The internet is filled with all manner of nutcases and Lit 200 is not unusual. What IS weird, however, is his total lack of awareness of how he comes across to other posters as a creepy, disgusting mole or rodent. Not too dificult to understand why this epitome of strangeness sits on the web all day - he probably looks like the back end of of a porker and the internet affords him the opportunity to be anyone he wants to be. Very very sad.

---------
There is nothing more "disturbed," "demented" and truly "creepy" than these posts from Donna under various aliases. She contributes nothing to the debate....just trashes other people. Sick, sick, sick.

W101 October 30, 2007 at 8:35 p.m.

annabel-lee: "Job opportunity for felon-conrad."
-----

LOL! what is Black's earning potential ... ? at a generous, say, 40 cents an hour, 40 hours a week, 40 days a month, for what will no doubt seem like 40 years ... is it even worth multiplying out?

Where would Radler cut costs in a prison where the budget is already pared to the bone, thanks to get-tough-on-crime advocates like Black?

Solitary confinement. That has to go. Prison isn't meant to be luxurious. Mouth off at the warden and you get your own private suite!? Ridiculous! Rack 'em and stack 'em.

Hot Dogs? How spoiled and presumptuous we have become ...They aren't dogs, at least for the most part, so who says they have to be hot? And would rolled up fried baloney be any less nutritious?

GW October 30, 2007 at 8:37 p.m.

Har D Har Dunga "responsible adult" an oxymoron if there ever was one!!

Ooops October 30, 2007 at 8:44 p.m.

Oh c'mon W101, lighten up. Lit's description of you is hilarious. The whole thing is a lot of fun. Well done Lit!

Ooops October 30, 2007 at 9 p.m.

I mean, Lit 200 didnt make anything up... I mean you DID say all that stuff. Didn't you?

Lit 200 October 30, 2007 at 9:06 p.m.

Thanks oopsie.

Worm, if you found your brain in a vise, well, it was YOUR words I was using, not mine. I am just a mirror and you are just my marionette with a painted-on clown's face... head and arms dangling on springs.

wave99 October 30, 2007 at 9:43 p.m.

The things is, whether you like Lit's take on the Black debate or not...that last theatrical post was simply hilarious and brilliantly crafted.

And, as I do likeLit's take on the Black thing, I'll step out of being objective and simply tell ya...he nailed the characters so perfectly that one would think the srcipt was made up of exact quotes.

Oh wait...it was !

Thus...speaks for itself as well.

Good job Lit. But I must say,it did creep me out a little ! lol

W101 October 30, 2007 at 9:50 p.m.

"Worm, if you found your brain in a vise, well, it was YOUR words I was using, not mine."
-----

Twit, It's not the words you use, it's how you put them together.

Barbara in BC October 30, 2007 at 10:32 p.m.

Lit 200, you is so clever. Even got my character down to a T. Perhaps your creativity comes from absinthe? Turns out it's all the rage...

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/10/30...

"Stephen Colbert is only concerned for our children. That’s why when he heard that absinthe is making a comeback among young people, he came up with an “absinthetinence” pledge."

"I, state your name, do hereby pledge to practice absinth-tinence by remaining absinth-tinent from Absinthe. Since Absinthe incidents in many instances induce incipient synthetic inspiration and sinister synthetic insistence on sin, I sincerely insist I will be absent from instances of Absinthe ingestion, this instant."

OJ October 30, 2007 at 10:55 p.m.

Corrections Corporation of America is the largest privetly owned prison system in america. It is a thriving publicly traded company.The stock is traded at the NYSE and available in mutual-funds at any of the canadian banks wealth management outlets. It has many modern facilities with low maintenance costs. Conrad is heading to oxford being one their jails. No doubt he is gong to welcome the unfettered capitalist approach. There are seven guards for 750 inmates during the day and two guard at night time. Inmates cook, clean, sew, and help out medical emergency cases as they are cross-trained to save costs. The facility is the largest supplier to the military for helmets, tank parts, shirts and underware. If the felon is good he gets one day off his sentence. but if he misbehaves he gets 30 days added to his stay. Long sentences help the corporation the have steady labour. The owners called proprietors also farm out inmates paying them 12 cents an hour. At the suggestion of an outside consultant mr radler, there is plan to eliminate the toilet paper and use old newspapers
for said purpose. Complainors are harshly treated. The advice from insiders is "try not to be heard". This is going to be difficult for conrad. The privatisation of the penal system started after the civil war, and in recent years under bush sr and clinton it has been accelerated in an effort to provide competitve labor vs. mexico and china.

gary e October 31, 2007 at 12:35 a.m.

Punishment alters the punisher as much as the punished.

Barbara in BC October 31, 2007 at 1:25 a.m.

gary e said:

"Punishment alters the punisher as much as the punished."

Possibly true, but you've got to admit that punishment is far more time-consuming for the punished than it is for the punisher.

ROGER October 31, 2007 at 1:38 a.m.

ChickenLittle wrote>The sensibility of women has been honed by centuries of oppression (I don't think that is too strong a word) and while they guarded the hearth, they have learned the lessons that men have forgotten: of usefulness<

... Lit000 must have had Karla Homolka in mind.

Nearly 20 years ago, I attended an international conference on women's issues here in Canada at which a male professor from an Ontario university delivered a lecture in which he negatively compared male McGill University professor Dawson to Bennett era Ottawa bureaucrat, social worker Charlotte Whitton before an international audience. At some point, I decided I had heard enough nonsense and stood up to ask a question and make a comment. I asked whether he was seriously comparing the socially responsible and progressive and compassionate Dawson in a negative manner with a Canadian social worker whose sensibilities during the Great Depression in Canada was akin to that of Margaret Thatcher. I reminded the good professor that the social worker/bureaucrat/policymaker for PM Bennett advised the government of Canada in the middle of the Great Depression, after making her fact finding journey to the West, that conditions were very bad, but she recommended against employment insurance or other help because it would merely make the poor people dependent upon the state and this dependency had to be prevented at all cost, and no matter the cost to the poor people! Once he acknowledged the accuracy of the comparisons and the veracity of the historical record, there was not much left of his speech that anyone wished to hear. Lit is like that professor. Women are not a stereotypical homogenous group, but a heterogeneous group, with many competing interests and many agendas. That collectively women share a history of discrimination and oppression might well be true for many people, there are some neocon women who argue the opposite. Women are not naturally more nurturing nor good at the hearth nor any other such stereotypes, which are themselves products of socially constructed roles (Parsonian instrumentalism/functionalism). Males and females are different, but not in the simplistic manner in which Lit 200 conceives of difference and which he describes, all of which is not intrinsic, but the product of socialization.

ROGER October 31, 2007 at 1:39 a.m.

Is there any doubt left that Lit200 and Leaf are one and the same? None whatsoever. I wonder how she is related to Black? A female living on the same latitude as Florida, close to the sea and who claims to be a book editor? Oh, and her first love was a Japanese guy who she says was far less intelligent than herself and whose family were her "in-laws" and really really nice to her. It must be painful for her to know that Black and Amiel are the butt of jokes on both sides of the Atlantic and that Black will shortly be a sweatshop worker trying to organize labour unions for prisoners and take his fellow exploited workers out on a strike inside the prison! Attica 2007! Black is no Cesar Chavez, nor for that matter is he even close to Jimmy Hoffa in charisma, only in corruption. Black will be a tiny cog in a wheel of a big corporation traded on the NYSE, as OJ has pointed out! Black will be listed as a company asset. Simply appalling.

I always believed prisoners were owed a high duty of care by the state. As long as the prisoner is in the custody of the state, whatever happened to that prisoner was the responsibility of the state who had incarcerated them. But that is not how others in power have seen it. There has not been any truly successful lawsuit on the breach of the state's duty of care for prisoners!

ROGER October 31, 2007 at 1:44 a.m.

Absinthe got a bad rap.

Barbara in BC--nice tongue-twisters. You could use it to teach lingual skills to the tongue tied.

ROGER October 31, 2007 at 1:52 a.m.

Barbara in BC October 31, 2007 at 12:25 a.m.

gary e said:

"Punishment alters the punisher as much as the punished."

Possibly true, but you've got to admit that punishment is far more time-consuming for the punished than it is for the punisher.
===

All depends on the punishment. Didn't take much time for Saddam to hang.

I still can't decide whether I would take 20 years in jail or immediate release if I left my hand behind. Shakespeare played with the idea of severed hands in one of his plays, Titus Andronicus (spelling?)--it was his most successful play in his lifetime, according to some sources. Anyway, it involved crime and punishment.

Dostoevsky has not been mentioned on this blog before, at least to my knowledge, and yet he wrote a seminal work on the topic. Odd that no one thought to compare Black to Raskolnikov (spelling?). It is an apt comparison, for Raskolnikov realizes he was mistaken--he had thought he was an Ubermensch, a Nietschian character, but in the end he decided he was not and so he considered himself a failure and surrendered to the police of his own volition. Will Black have the same insight?

gary e October 31, 2007 at 1:58 a.m.

BBc said:
"Possibly true, but you've got to admit that punishment is far more time-consuming for the punished than it is for the punisher."

Our actions towards others define us. That's all I am saying.

And the time involved for both is exactly the same.

Someone pass me that hair splitting cleaver, please!!

Barbara in BC October 31, 2007 at 2:40 a.m.

Didn't know that about Charlotte Whitton, Roger. I believe she was Mayor of Ottawa in her golden years.

Barbara in BC October 31, 2007 at 2:41 a.m.

gary e: I split hairs, that's what I do!

Squirt October 31, 2007 at 3:09 a.m.

<<ROGER October 31, 2007 at 12:44 a.m.

Absinthe got a bad rap.

Barbara in BC--nice tongue-twisters. You could use it to teach lingual skills to the tongue tied.>>

ROG - are you trying to say you also think BBC is a cunning linguist?

orloff October 31, 2007 at 6:17 a.m.

I fail to see a similarity between black and the Dovstovsky's novel. Esentially the russian had a conscience which tortured him to recognize his wrong. Black has no conscienc