rush May 8, 2008 at 2:22 p.m.

dude, i agree with you. its hard to have a peaceful meal or enjoy a movie when youve got a 3 year old behind you crying and screaming the whole time

Stacey May 8, 2008 at 4:35 p.m.

Matt, if I wasn't married, I would hunt you down and love you up. :-) Thank you for your sensible and pragmatic commnet. Well said.

Rush, don't forget about the kicking. Those rugrats love to chat and kick your seat all through movies. I am never too nice to say something directly to the kid and parent. Hee.

Rob May 8, 2008 at 5:50 p.m.

Well and succinctly said Matt.
If I weren't hetero, I'd do the same Stacey.
Too bad the article didn't call for 150 words or less - a whole lot of hand-wringing over nothing.

I'm not far from having a child myself but I would be horrified to be lumped in with the worst among the parental set [not just the hipsters] - much less my child fraternizing with theirs. I fear for the feature if simple discipline can't be bred into the bone.

Julie May 12, 2008 at 10:23 p.m.

When it comes to me, some people would think I'm an anti-kid person since I do not like to put up with an unruly toddler or screaming baby when I am trying to enjoy a meal. Mind you, I have eaten at a restaurant with children at the next table and have barely even noticed they were there, since they were very well-behaved. On the flip side I have had to on occasion politely ask the hostess to move me into a different area of a restaurant, or decide to take the rest of my meal to go, so that I may eat in peace.

When I was growing up you were only allowed to go out to a restaurant with your parents once you knew how to properly use your utensils, say please and thank you and not make noise or pisturb other patrons. I think it is a very reasonable requirement. If an adult were to be behaving badly in an establishment they would be asked to leave. And if you want your child to be a patron of an establishment then they should know how to adhere to certain rules like the rest of us. I believe it is only fair to all the diners.

The only thing worse then bringing unruly toddlers to a restaurant is bringing newborns. I realize that new parents need to eat, but do they not see that not only they will not be able to enjoy their meal but prevent others from enjoying theirs. Their baby WILL wake up and cry at some point during their meal, WILL demand attention, WILL need to be fed, etc. It is completely awful to try to have a romantic dinner with your husband down the isle from a screeching baby. I'm sure that some suitable babysitting options are available even to the "hipsterest" of parents. We all have families and friends who would gladly give us a "night off".

And Matt, you're right, if a parent has not raised their child well, refuses to teach manners and behaviour then they should take that child somewhere more appropriate for a "happy meal", not subject others to the results of poor parenting.

yabadaba May 12, 2008 at 11:07 p.m.

I own a $1200 stroller, have 2 kids under the age of 3 and lived in parkdale! And we lived in parkdale from 1997 - 2006 so it was even pre-cool to live there.

We moved away and still get Toronto Life magazine. We live in a big city now, which is not Bugaboo-obsessed, fortunately.

We have raised our kids to be polite, well mannered, and we respect that everyone in a shop, restaurant or venue of any kind is there to enjoy themselves, not to worry about what kind of chaos my children are going to create.

If my kids act up, which they do on occasion, I leave. If they make a mess, I clean it up. If they scream, I shut them the f*ck up and we leave. Trust me, I don't want to listen to them scream any more than you do.

So it boils down to people just being rude, inconsiderate and insensitive. Like another poster wrote, "get over yourselves". It's not rocket science.

julia May 13, 2008 at 12:53 p.m.

right on matt, and if i WERE hetero i would find you and snap you up! love and boundaries indeed. thought a lot about this saturday afternoon at an angela hewitt concert in ottawa with the two parents and two kids in the pew beside me. one of the children was just TOO YOUNG to ever be expected to sit quietly through the whole thing. it absolutely affected my enjoyment. one parent and both kids left at the intermission. i don't 'blame' the child. i 'blame' the parents! parents: *please* make the judgement call (is it an age-appropriate place or event) *before* going! consider how your children's behaviour will impact on others. thanks.

Rose May 15, 2008 at 10:01 a.m.

Matt,

You and everyone else are totally right! It is a real joy to go out to dine with our three year old and makes it a nice treat as well as a family experience for all of us. Rarely, when and if he ever acts up, and we can't seem to turn him around, we will leave so as not to inflict our bad time with the others dining (who are also paying for the dining experience). Please note I wrote the words, 'dining experience'. I did not say change of venue. No one outside of your social circle cares that you had a bad day, you didn't feel like cooking or want a big mess at home because your cleaning lady just left. I've seen many parents with unruly children sitting next or near to us. I think this may be the only time they say 'NO' to them because their kid(s) certainly didn't respond or seem to understand the word. Dining out is NOT the time or venue to teach your child the meaning of this word - this should be learned at home. Don't expect the general public to condone your bad parenting skills.